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Author Topic: safe loading of flintlock and percussion  (Read 2955 times)

Online The Miner '49er

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safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« on: January 12, 2019, 05:01:54 PM »
In an attempt to be as safe as possible when loading my flintlock rifle, after verifying it is unloaded, I put the frizzen forward and then lower the cock down to the pan. Next I load powder, patch and ball. Next I pull the cock to half-cock, and prick through the touch hole with a large brass needle. Finally I prime the pan, close the frizzen, pull the cock to full and then ka-boom (usually). My thought process is that I want to eliminate any chance of a spark by avoiding tensioning the cock at half-cock until I must do so to make ready and charge the pan. Here's my question. I recently started using a percussion pistol (not revolver). Most of what I read says to put the hammer on half-cock, then load P,P,B, then cap the nipple, pull to full cock and finally fire. It seems to me this is opening the shooter to the same risk. I don't have a lot of faith in springs and half-cock notches. Similar to my FL procedure, I have been lowering the hammer against an unprimed nipple, loading the barrel, and finally pulling the hammer to half-cock, using a capper to seat the cap, then pulling to full cock and then firing. Is this the recommended safest way or am I overthinking this?
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Offline Ohio Joe

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Re: safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2019, 05:24:59 PM »
Well, the way I load a flintlock is I go to half-cock and open the frizzen,,, powder - patch & ball,,, pick the vent hole,,, prime the pan and close the frizzen - come to full cock - aim and shoot,,, or if I'm not going to shoot right away (depending on weather) I will still prime the pan - close the frizzen and leave the cock at half cock.  Your flint should never be touching the frizzen at half cock).  -OR- you can leave your pan not primed and stick a feather in the vent hole and prime when you're ready to take your shot.

Loading a cap lock; I go to half cock,,, powder - patch & ball,,, cap the nipple,,, go to full cock and shoot. (If I'm not going to shoot right away I will put a piece of leather between the hammer and non-capped nipple "just carry a piece of leather tied to your trigger guard" and then cap at half cock when I'm ready to shoot.

I would suggest whatever you are comfortable doing is what you should continue to do and always be safe in what you do.

IMHO - it's safer to stick with one loading and priming method then to alter your method for either because of a particular reason that is not normally used.
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Offline RobD

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Re: safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2019, 05:28:06 PM »
what joe just typed.  :bl th up

i'll add, if not shooting a flinter immediately, one can put a leather cover over the frizzen.

Online rollingb

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Re: safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2019, 06:10:21 PM »
what joe just typed.  :bl th up

i'll add, if not shooting a flinter immediately, one can put a leather cover over the frizzen.

Yep,.... what Joe said.  :bl th up

and,... what Rob said :bl th up, "hammer stalls" are cheap insurance on a flintlock. :)
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Offline Ohio Joe

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Re: safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2019, 07:02:02 PM »
what joe just typed.  :bl th up

i'll add, if not shooting a flinter immediately, one can put a leather cover over the frizzen.

Absolutely, leather frizzen cover.  :hairy
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Offline prairie dog

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Re: safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2019, 10:08:23 AM »
I was taught to open the pan and put the cock down.  I have seen a flintlock go off with no powder in the pan, and the hole in the pool table to prove it. 

Percussion locks are not likely to produce a spark but you know Murphy's law.  Don't cap until you are on the shooting line.
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Offline Fyrstyk

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Re: safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2019, 11:18:01 AM »
When loading a percussion gun, putting it on half cock is not a risk to the gun firing if there is no cap on the nipple.  I always go to half cock to allow air to pass thru the nipple when loading powder/patch&ball. There is the possiblity of "dieseling" if air cannot escape the nipple when seating a tight patch ball combination.
As for flint lock loading, I aways put the frizzen stall on the frizzen with the gun at 1/2 cock when loading to be safe.

Online The Miner '49er

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Re: safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2019, 12:33:06 PM »
Thanks to all who have offered their thoughts and loading procedures. After reading comments from the first three experienced guys I was thinking that I was concerned about a problem that didn't exist, but then along came prairie dog and Fyrstyk. The pool table incident shows that Murphy's law spares no one. On another M-L forum I read about some dieseling discharges and those incidents make a good case for Fyrstyk going to half-cock when loading to allow a pressure vent for air. At this point I'm thinking that a safe procedure would be to go to half-cock and frizzen forward on the flinter, and half-cock on the percussion, but to shroud the cock and flint, or the tip of the percussion hammer, with a leather stall before loading the barrel. This way even if Murphy rears his head there should be no sparks and hopefully no accidental discharge. I hope more shooters chime in with their procedures and experiences, this is really interesting. Thanks again, guys.
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Offline RobD

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Re: safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2019, 12:47:41 PM »
considering that overall firearm common sense is used ...

for a loaded flintlock firearm, there are NO safety concerns if a frizzen is booted, laid full down on a primed pan, and the cock is set to half.

there ARE concerns about a capped nipple with the cock set to half, so don't cap the nipple until ready to shoot and keep the hammer over the bare nipple or covered nipple.

that's all there is to that.  firearm safety always begins with that gray matter twixt the ears!  :bl th up   

i was at a range shoot years ago and a feller was using those safe flintlock loading methods, but his gun was yet still unsafe - there was a 1/6" gap 'tween the lock bolster and the barrel.  plenty of room to accumulate spilled pan powder and eventually blow up the lock plate.   

Offline prairie dog

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Re: safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2019, 06:47:25 PM »
Consider that a flint knocked askew could strike the barrel and produce a spark.  And yes, if that lock plate isn't tight against the barrel flat priming powder will leak into the lock along with fouling. 

PS

I started out using a frizzen stall for hunting but it is simply a handicap for bird and rabbit hunting.  Now I check the half cock for proper function and load, prime or cap when I enter the field.  Practice safe muzzle control from there. On the shooting line we don't prime or cap until we are on the line with the muzzle pointing down range.  So my frizzen stall rides in the bottom of my bullet pouch in case I want to use it for some reason.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2019, 06:56:42 PM by prairie dog »
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Offline Ohio Joe

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Re: safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2019, 04:42:53 PM »
Quote
I would suggest whatever you are comfortable doing is what you should continue to do and always be safe in what you do.

IMHO - it's safer to stick with one loading and priming method then to alter your method for either because of a particular reason that is not normally used.

I typed the above earlier, and here it is again, but I want to add the following (as a follow up).

Now;

With a percussion rifle - I come to half cock before loading it...

With a flintlock rifle I come to half cock before loading it as the frizzen is open (prior to loading) or from the last shot taken.

This is staying within the same loading procedure - except for priming whichever rifle you're shooting on a given day, cap or flint.

I did take a look at several "flintlock" loading videos on youtube this morning - and not a one that I watched even addressed this topic we have going on here now, and the ones I watched - the frizzen was open and the cock was down.

Now, does this make either right or wrong? To me, I don't believe so. Either is fine (Frizzen open / with the Cock at half or down) and both work fine. IMHO it is what you are use to doing.  :shake
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Offline Ohio Joe

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Re: safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2019, 11:41:46 AM »
Just to chime in, as an inveterate  caplock shooter, I ALWAYS  load  at half cock. Having said that, I confess to a growing attraction to try a flintlock. You, my forum friends, are the reason for that attraction. Dang! This  hobby is getting expensive.

Nessmuk,

I've always looked at this hobby/sport as a "regression rather then a progression" with all designs pre 1900...

Caplock
Flintlock
Wheel Lock
Fire Lock
Hand cannon

Of which the last three on the above list I seriously doubt I will ever have or shoot,,, and I'm quite happy and satisfied with the first two on the above list.

There are probably many caplock shooters who will eventually get a flintlock simply because of the lure of the flintlock and the enjoyment that follows when using one.  :shake
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Online The Miner '49er

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Re: safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2019, 10:54:37 AM »
Thanks to all who have chimed in, this sure has been interesting and thought provoking. Ohio Joe's viewing of Youtube videos prompted me to dig in some more on the internet. As you recall, my original question was to learn the safest way to load a single-shot ML percussion pistol. When I was about 8 years old my dad started drilling into my brain not to trust a gun's safety; it's nothing more than a man-made gizmo that can break. This has stuck with me. Also I doubt that anyone would argue the point that something like a hammer, under spring tension, has the potential (albeit slight) to release and cause a spark. Here are loading procedures that I found on the net. The NMLRA says that after loading PPB "bring hammer to half-cock and cap." (They also require flintlocks to be loaded with frizzen and cock forward). Pedersoli instructions begin by saying "with the hammer on rest position (down)" . . . load PPB. CVA says "fire three caps to dry bore and nipple ... load PPB ... with gun pointed in safe direction and hammer at half-cock, place percussion cap on nipple." I found other sites that instruct the shooter to first pull the hammer to half-cock. Even the BSA rifle shooting merit badge pamphlet (the BSA is usually extremely safety conscious) begins with putting the hammer on half-cock. I can't see any advantage to this, the only exception being to vent the barrel as Fyrstyk mentioned, but when loading a pistol I don't think this would be much of a potential worry. I tried in vain to find any original 19th century loading instructions. I was hoping to learn if half-cock was viewed as a loading position or a safe(er) carry position. If anyone has something like that in their collection, please post it. Thanks again, guys!
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Online rollingb

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Re: safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2019, 12:14:42 PM »
Thanks to all who have chimed in, this sure has been interesting and thought provoking. Ohio Joe's viewing of Youtube videos prompted me to dig in some more on the internet. As you recall, my original question was to learn the safest way to load a single-shot ML percussion pistol. When I was about 8 years old my dad started drilling into my brain not to trust a gun's safety; it's nothing more than a man-made gizmo that can break. This has stuck with me. Also I doubt that anyone would argue the point that something like a hammer, under spring tension, has the potential (albeit slight) to release and cause a spark. Here are loading procedures that I found on the net. The NMLRA says that after loading PPB "bring hammer to half-cock and cap." (They also require flintlocks to be loaded with frizzen and cock forward). Pedersoli instructions begin by saying "with the hammer on rest position (down)" . . . load PPB. CVA says "fire three caps to dry bore and nipple ... load PPB ... with gun pointed in safe direction and hammer at half-cock, place percussion cap on nipple." I found other sites that instruct the shooter to first pull the hammer to half-cock. Even the BSA rifle shooting merit badge pamphlet (the BSA is usually extremely safety conscious) begins with putting the hammer on half-cock. I can't see any advantage to this, the only exception being to vent the barrel as Fyrstyk mentioned, but when loading a pistol I don't think this would be much of a potential worry. I tried in vain to find any original 19th century loading instructions. I was hoping to learn if half-cock was viewed as a loading position or a safe(er) carry position. If anyone has something like that in their collection, please post it. Thanks again, guys!

I doubt you'll find much, or anything at all, with regards to something that was likely to have been considered an everyday regime when it comes to loading muzzleloaders.

One has to remember, folks "back then" relied on common sense when it came to safety, and were handling guns from the time they were old enough to pick one up, and were taught what it took to survive everyday life by their elders.
No muzzleloaders back then, came with written instructions and there was no internet. They were taught to think for themselves and to know their weapons intimately with regards to "form and function".

Have you ever taken a lock apart, and studied how it works?

If so,.... you'll notice that the "safety notch" (half-cock notch) on a modern lock's tumbler has a "lip" on it that the sear's nose sits above to prevent the sear from slipping down from it's intended ("safe") position when at half-cock.
You can check this out for yourself, by bringing your lock's hammer back to half-cock and pulling on the trigger,.... nothing should/will happen, unless someone has messed with that "lip" and didn't know what they were doing.
The only way to over-ride a half-cock notch's "lip" is to bring the hammer back a bit with your thumb while applying pressure to the trigger. That will then allow the hammer to move forward, another way is to bring the hammer back to "full-cock" and pulling the trigger.
Your lock will also likely have a "fly",... which prevents the sear's nose from slipping back into the "half-cock" notch as the hammer moves forward from the "full-cock" position.

I'm not saying every lock is exactly like described above though,... 'cause some cheap imports from the 1960's and 70's, didn't see the need for a "fly", and some didn't even have a "half-cock" notch.  :Doh!
But to be fair,... I've also seen some antique weapons lacking one, or both, also.  :bl th up

By studying your gun's lock carefully, and thoroughly understanding how it functions,.... you'll be following a 300-400 year old tradition.  :bl th up

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Offline Ohio Joe

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Re: safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2019, 02:10:38 PM »
IMHO, the most unsafe way to load (in this case) a flintlock, that was a practice of the Military of that day,,, was to prime the pan from the paper cartridge / close the frizzen (so the cock would have to be at half cock for this, then pour the paper cartridge powder down the bore - followed by the paper and ball all at the same time,,, and this was repeated many times in battle and very quickly (if you were lucky enough to survive the volley-fire from the enemy.....)

So, loading like the Military loaded back then - this must not have been an issue for them... I wouldn't care to duplicate that without first blowing down the barrel, which many frown on these days.
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