PC / HC ?

[Flinchlock]

I see folks posting about pc or hc like it's a bad thing... I am guessing, after some guessing, that this is period-correct and historically correct? If so, why is it bad?

In reenacting, they call folks that insist on this this kind of thing "stitch Nazis". I don't think it's bad, per-se, only when over the top. If one is trying to help, it can be good. When criticizing or attacking, well, to me, it's wrong. I was on a trekking fb group and was asking about footwear because I have diabetes and need support, etc. anyway I got some good info, with many agreeing and giving advice. Of course, you had a few "harder than hard" heroes telling me I was wrong. But the kicker was the group owner who called me a "farb". How nice. He eventually booted me for something that was not explained. Do you think I will forget him? He could have pm-ed on this, but didn't... My point is, sure something that isn't correct is glaring, but I try to ignore it. Someone in a great say, colonial kit, but wearing modern glasses or sunglasses... I just try to ignore it. I do Roman reenacting and some folks get upset that we don't allow eyewear... they didn't have it. Either contacts or do without. Perhaps some of the real small medieval glasses. Anyway, some just don't get it... perhaps our group isn't for you. I would never go. To another's event or group and tell them they are wrong... if they ask, I might give advice, but it's not my place. Okay, with my brother maybe, I think Walker Colts are junk, but hey... 

Seriously, I just don't think pic and he are bad. Just when you try to force your beliefs on others.
Now, down my soapbox, will I step. Sometimes rambling and venting is good.

[rollingb]

I see folks posting about pc or hc like it's a bad thing... I am guessing, after some guessing, that this is period-correct and historically correct? If so, why is it bad?

In reenacting, they call folks that insist on this this kind of thing "stitch Nazis". I don't think it's bad, per-se, only when over the top. If one is trying to help, it can be good. When criticizing or attacking, well, to me, it's wrong. I was on a trekking fb group and was asking about footwear because I have diabetes and need support, etc. anyway I got some good info, with many agreeing and giving advice. Of course, you had a few "harder than hard" heroes telling me I was wrong. But the kicker was the group owner who called me a "farb". How nice. He eventually booted me for something that was not explained. Do you think I will forget him? He could have pm-ed on this, but didn't... My point is, sure something that isn't correct is glaring, but I try to ignore it. Someone in a great say, colonial kit, but wearing modern glasses or sunglasses... I just try to ignore it. I do Roman reenacting and some folks get upset that we don't allow eyewear... they didn't have it. Either contacts or do without. Perhaps some of the real small medieval glasses. Anyway, some just don't get it... perhaps our group isn't for you. I would never go. To another's event or group and tell them they are wrong... if they ask, I might give advice, but it's not my place. Okay, with my brother maybe, I think Walker Colts are junk, but hey... 

Seriously, I just don't think pic and he are bad. Just when you try to force your beliefs on others.
Now, down my soapbox, will I step. Sometimes rambling and venting is good.

While the sharing of historical (period correct) information on the TMA forum is ALWAYS encouraged,.... anyone giving our TMA members (and/or guests) an unnecessary "hard time", will likely be shown the door. 

[Flinchlock]

Didn't I say that? I'm just ranting... The bozo that called me a "farb", well it's unlikely I will forget that.

People nowadays seem to think they can control others. If it's YOUR event sure, but don't come to my event and tell me that certain things are/are not allowed. Anyway, I don't think pc hc it whatever is a curse word. Years ago, I was on the other ml forum. I didna like it much and don't go back very often.

[Ohio Joe]

What Rondo says! 

I do have to add this 'cause I can't resist, (and I won't say where this took place)... I watched a feller give another feller very friendly guidance on being HC & PC and as I say - he was very nice about it right down to his shoestring tied modern boots - right up to the TC Hawken in the crock of his arm... 

But hey, they were friends - and the effort by both parties looked pretty equal to me.   

I'll be the first to admit that I'm not either HC or PC, but I pass (what one might call) muster for the Rendezvous I attend. And I will say that sharing a camp area with some AMM members at our annual Rendezvous - those were some pretty darn dedicated and educated fellers. You couldn't help but admire them and I give them high marks as they stayed within their HC/PC persona and it was a joy to watch and talk with some of 'em... Great group, and that was the path they chose.

   

[Flinchlock]

I think it's all good. Just how folks treat each other. People assume, when in reality they should ask.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[Oldetexian]

Thanks for bringing this up. I totally agree that it' about the spirit of the law and not the letter. I love to have folks offer me helpful advice about being period or historically correct. Learning from mentors is a short cut as far as I am concerned. It saves an enormous amount of time, effort and money.

On top of this I see this as a wonderful hobby...and the best part of the hobby is learning and perfecting my persona. When I reach perfection I will try something else. Until then I plan on treating those around me like I would like to be treated...a pilgrim that has a long way to go who is doing the best he can with the information he's got. Part of the fun is being with a group that helps each other until we all get to where we want to be.

[Flinchlock]

I'm learning all the time and am never too good to try something that might be better.

It's like with guns... I see guys sneering at old CVA and T/C guns WTH? I've also seen plenty of matches won with those guns. I've seen guys with fancy custom guns not win. For the most part, all of these guns shoot better than we can. Anyway, I still think bp people are better (as in nicer) than other gun types. I point out to many of them that zombies ain't real.
M

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[Winter Hawk]

Someone in a great say, colonial kit, but wearing modern glasses or sunglasses... I just try to ignore it.

I got a kick out of the photo of Dick "Beau Jacques" House on page 1 of the first Book of Buckskinning, decked out in leathers with a straw hat on his head, modern eye glasses on his nose, and a digital watch on his wrist.  He wrote about "The philosophy of Buckskinning."  It was looser back in 1981 on what you wore at rendezvous, I guess.

~Kees~

[Ohio Joe]

Thanks for bringing this up. I totally agree that it' about the spirit of the law and not the letter. I love to have folks offer me helpful advice about being period or historically correct. Learning from mentors is a short cut as far as I am concerned. It saves an enormous amount of time, effort and money.

On top of this I see this as a wonderful hobby...and the best part of the hobby is learning and perfecting my persona. When I reach perfection I will try something else. Until then I plan on treating those around me like I would like to be treated...a pilgrim that has a long way to go who is doing the best he can with the information he's got. Part of the fun is being with a group that helps each other until we all get to where we want to be.

Amen to that brother! 

Now I got'a mention (and I think I have before) that for me it seems like doing a persona is the hardest thing to come up with as (in my case now) I can't always be 62 years old in the years 1825 thru 1840 as those 15 years will always stand and if I live to be 80+ years old, well who's gonna believe I came west to trap in 1825 at the ripe old age of 73 (which would be the middle part of that 15 year span...

So, rather then change my persona (if I had one) I'm just "Ohio Joe" aka "Candle Snuffer" and I'm a free trapper plying my trade the same as I did east of the Missouri before it got to crowded... For me, that's as close to a persona as I'm going to get and I don't have to pin down any specific time period dates. The only other thing I'd have to be on guard about is;

"Why do they call you Ohio Joe?"

"Well, I guess 'cause I trapped that Ohio country in my youth - and the Shawnee chased me every chance they got. So this ol' hoss just kept moving west when things got to civilized for a man to live off the land and ply his trade. I reckon I don't have much movin' west left in these old bones."

So if I have a persona, that's it.   

[rollingb]

Someone in a great say, colonial kit, but wearing modern glasses or sunglasses... I just try to ignore it.

I got a kick out of the photo of Dick "Beau Jacques" House on page 1 of the first Book of Buckskinning, decked out in leathers with a straw hat on his head, modern eye glasses on his nose, and a digital watch on his wrist.  He wrote about "The philosophy of Buckskinning."  It was looser back in 1981 on what you wore at rendezvous, I guess.

~Kees~

Yes,.... there has been a bit of division between the two sports known as "modern buckskinning", and those that desire to "re-live history" as accurately as possible.

Some folks use sources (such as movies/Hollywood), to determine "what and how" they should look and what tools and guns they should use and carry, when depicting 17th. 18th. and early 19th. century frontiersmen, and mountaineers.
NOTE: Hollywood doesn't much care about being "historically correct", as long as their movies bring in MONEY,.... we should all be aware of that fact, and accept it for what it is.

On the other hand,.... there are folks that dedicate a great portion of their lives to "historical research", and new (historical) information is being discovered all the time. Some of these folks also put what they have learned into "practical application and survival", by limiting themselves to using only things that can be "documented", and find great enjoyment in going that route.
That's not to say, you'll find them in the woods using only hand forged tools, hand forged wrought-iron gun barrels, and hand forged hardware on their guns, because these days such things are often not practical due to modern limitations. 

These fellas (and gals) do however, go to great lengths to accurately re-live history, by brain tanning hides, making their own lodges, saddles, clothing, and accouterments. So they do have a vested interest in doing things the way our forefathers did.

Even the most "hardcore" (dedicated) modern mountaineer will often readily admit that he (and his "trappings"), can usually stand some improvements, and therein lies a big portion of the "never-ending fun" of historical research and the effort to re-live history. 

I have met a few "stitch counters" over the years, who have done just enough research to make themselves irritable,.... but they're usually "far and few between". 
 
As for "personas",.... once historical clothing, type and style of weapons, trapping and camping gear (of a particular time-frame), has been made/attained, it's not difficult to establish a believable persona "that fits you well". 

I'm a "free trapper",.... I go where I want, whenever I want. 

[blackpowderbill]

HC/PC can go so far. If you need special foot wear then I have no problem with it, same with glasses or a c-pap machine and solar panel to charge it as long as the solar unit is hide on the back of a tent when not in use.

I wear glasses and can get by without them for getting around camp.

 I wear special shoes with inserts from the VA & weather permitting I'll wear my mocs that have a hard insert in them. That insert is not what I should be using but it gets me by.

Years back I ran into 2 ladies who had on shoes that were covered with leather to hide them. The only way you knew they had on flatlander shoes was i they had their feet up it left the soles exposed. Good idea IMO

I need to find a pair of boots that will allow my good inserts to fit inside.  I had picked up a pair of mocs, not sewn together but they are a tad small for the insert.

The big problem is the PC/HC deal is what to allow and not to allow. Those policies have to be in writing and agree'd upon by the committee or group as a whole. Not the willy nilly thread nazi new gun-ho who is given a bit of position for an event and it goes to his head.

Hey one reason we have so many different forums especially on facebook is everyone wants to be incharge of his own little world. Most couldn't run a real live not for profit/ non profit group for 3 months.

You ride me at an event and 2 things can happen.
1. I go full blown perfectionist or
.2 I leave depending on how big a deal you think you are.

IMO their should in some case be 2 camps one full blown canvas the other for beginners separate but not out of the way.

But with the dwindling vouse and aging folks it's hard nuff to get a really full camp most times.  I see a lot of new people going full bore dressed out in internet pictures all with the same outfits.
Everyone wants to be a eastern long hunter or mountain man. Look, not every one was a eastern long hunter,blacksmith or preacher.

They all quote the same storyline,books,articles very few have ever read local journals of the times.

We had hundreds of trades people, regular folk rural and cityfied. Pick one of those stand out be different.

That's my opinion, your mileage may differ.

 

 



 




 

[rollingb]

HC/PC can go so far. If you need special foot wear then I have no problem with it, same with glasses or a c-pap machine and solar panel to charge it as long as the solar unit is hide on the back of a tent when not in use.

I wear glasses and can get by without them for getting around camp.

 I wear special shoes with inserts from the VA & weather permitting I'll wear my mocs that have a hard insert in them. That insert is not what I should be using but it gets me by.

Years back I ran into 2 ladies who had on shoes that were covered with leather to hide them. The only way you knew they had on flatlander shoes was i they had their feet up it left the soles exposed. Good idea IMO

I need to find a pair of boots that will allow my good inserts to fit inside.  I had picked up a pair of mocs, not sewn together but they are a tad small for the insert.

The big problem is the PC/HC deal is what to allow and not to allow. Those policies have to be in writing and agree'd upon by the committee or group as a whole. Not the willy nilly thread nazi new gun-ho who is given a bit of position for an event and it goes to his head.

Hey one reason we have so many different forums especially on facebook is everyone wants to be incharge of his own little world. Most couldn't run a real live not for profit/ non profit group for 3 months.

You ride me at an event and 2 things can happen.
1. I go full blown perfectionist or
.2 I leave depending on how big a deal you think you are.

IMO their should in some case be 2 camps one full blown canvas the other for beginners separate but not out of the way.

But with the dwindling vouse and aging folks it's hard nuff to get a really full camp most times.  I see a lot of new people going full bore dressed out in internet pictures all with the same outfits.
Everyone wants to be a eastern long hunter or mountain man. Look, not every one was a eastern long hunter,blacksmith or preacher.

They all quote the same storyline,books,articles very few have ever read local journals of the times.

We had hundreds of trades people, regular folk rural and cityfied. Pick one of those stand out be different.

That's my opinion, your mileage may differ.

That is an excellent point Bill. 

At the Ft. Bridger Rendezvous, there are 2 camps,.... 1 for the regular "buckskinners", and a seperate camp for the AMM (American Mountain Men).
The AMM welcome "anyone and everyone" to come visit their camp, and ask questions. 

The AMM also have a seperate camp at the RMNR,.... and they welcome visitors to stop by and chat. 

[Ohio Joe]

The AMM is a great group that I truly enjoy observing, but unfortunately I'm just not dedicated enough to become a AMM member, but I surely admire and respect those folks.

At least one thing many of us have in common on both sides of the fence,,, we like our fire-water!!!

Seriously though, this buckskinning stuff we do on any and all levels, is the best! Absolutely the best! Great folks, great location, great camaraderie, and I've always had the good fortune to meet the most interesting and nicest folks on gods green earth. To me these folks are all like brothers and sisters, and I'm always just a bit sad when the end of camp rolls around, but I Know I'm gonna see my Rendezvous family again in a year. And to me, that's what this is all about - family, whether your blood related or not, you're still family.
 

 

[AxelP]

When I was a pup in the 70s, I was very interested in the mountain man era. But it only took one meeting with a tin teepee rondevooyer to 100% turn me off of ever participating in the hobby. He was a sloppy old drunk who's only reason for being out there was to run away from his wife for a weekend and get wasted. They had very little interest in real history... I was interested in the "real deal" challenging myself. Would I have what it takes to camp, travel and hunt like they did? Of course if you study the history, many of the original mountain men were sloppy drunks who were escaping adult responsibilities, so in a sense that old feller may have been right on in that regard, but at the time, that aspect held no allure. I ended up going a different route. Many years later, I found a few like-minded souls and finally DID get involved in the hobby-- camping and hunting etc. I ended up going a bit further back to the 1760s. And with maturity, I learned to be less judgmental and accepting of folks, even the ones that had different reasons for being in the hobby. There is just not that many folks who dabble in the hobby and as Ben Franklin said, "if we do not hang together, most assuredly we will hang separately." So should you ever stumble into my camp, you will be accepted, fed and watered, no matter if you soiled your breeches and smell of cheap whiskey.

[Nessmuk]

I actually  cringed when I saw PC/HC as a subject in new posts. I thought to myself "Oh No, here we go another forum  ruined for me with HC/PC vitriol."
I apologize  for thinking  that. 14 posts politely  stating their views. No rancor, no vitriol. Just respect and honor. Thank you, friends ( I amost said Gentlemen but caught myself  at the last second)   

 Just one question, what in the world is a "farb"?