Hunting loads for the Fusil-de-chasse (.62/20 gauge Smooth)

[WhiteBlanket]

I hope you all don't think me to be too much of a pest if I ask another question.  I went out to the range the other day, and spent the entire day playing with the fusil.  I'm very happy with the gun, but I'm trying to fine tune the loads.

At 25 yards, 120 grains volume of number four shot backed by a greased wad and 80 grains of FFg Goex powder, wiith an "overshot card" of two layers of  brown paper gave me a nice, evenly distributed pattern, which I think will be lethal on a turkey.

I had been loading .62 caliber round ball, with 80 grains of FFg Goex powder topped by a greased wad between powder and ball, and the ball topped by a doubled square of brown paper to keep the ball in place.  My groups are good, but not yet great, as I am still trying to figure out how to read the sight picture window with just the front sight.  I was reading Mr. Spencer's Black Powder Notebook, and noticed that he used both a wad and a patched ball.  I'm not sure that this is historical, but I imagine it does make for a better gas seal, increases the barrel pressure and therefore the muzzle velocity of the ball, and possibly keeps it more accurately moving down the center of the bore.

On the historical level, I'm not aware of the use of patches with fusils.  As far as I know, they were wadded not patched.  I do know some people use powder and bare ball, but I can scarcely imagine that this improves accuracy.  For hunting purposes, I would like as accurate a load as possible.

I have found that a light muslin will serve as a super thin patch, enabling me to load my .600 round ball as if a rifle. I haven't fired this yet, though, so I'm not sure how well such a patch will survive being fired.   Again, I'm not sure how historical this practice is, but I want the most ethical shot possible to take a deer.  I'm tempted to take Mr. Spencer's suggestion and load with both wad and patch.  Any thoughts from your own experience?

[Mitch]

I use 75-80gr 3f, patched .595ball-no wad.....it works for me...

[Sir Michael]

Before making a you know what of myself I'll ask the question, why did you select the shot size you did?  Having asked that, my experience is that if you start with the measure you use for powder filled with shot you should have a good starting point.  Then adjust either the powder or shot (one) up or down by what ever increment you can use reliably and when you get close to the pattern you want adjust the other until you get the rest of the way there.

FYI I belong to a trap club that has a pattern board.  It is far more useful to us a pattern board to work up a load for shot than anything else.  JMHO.  

[WhiteBlanket]

Sir Michael,

I was not happy with the pattern at equal volumes of shot and powder.  I started there...  But it's a full cylinder bore and tends to disperse the shot widely and quickly. This way I get a denser pattern.

 I had been getting a doughnut-shaped pattern until I stopped using conventional over-shot cards.  Plain brown paper ( or oak leaves) are much better.  I realize that a volume and a half is about the limit of the volume of shot I can use effectively.  I'll have to play around a bit more, as you suggest.

Somebody mentioned the use of a thin leather "shotcup" -- I'd love to know the dimensions of that.  

I need to be able to put at a minimum 3-4 of #4 shot -  with power - reliably on the turkey's  head and neck to be sure of the ethical shot; 6-8 of #7.  I have been going for the #4 shot:  if I miss, I miss, but am less likely to end up with a merely wounded bird.

Thanks' all, for the suggestions on the roundball - I've ordered 50 .595 cal. balls to play with on a regular greased patch.

[No Rod]

For hunting I have found in modern shotguns that the use of #4 nets way more birds that any other shot size. I just used that knowledge in muzzleloading shot choice. I'm sure #4's are overkill for pats but really shine on pheasants. I don't hunt turkey but it should work great on them too. I use #8's for clays.

I'm almost afraid to say what my shot load is. I have an Irish shot charger and I use 2 full charges for it on top of 75grs of 3F Swiss. I use an over powder card, dry felt wad and an over shot card as well. Shoots like a full choke and kicks like a mule! I should lube the wad, it leads up after 5 or 6 shots but when I do it blows a hole in the pattern. Need to find something light... water soluble oil maybe... don't know.

[tg]

I think my best groups with smoothbores have been with a wad and PRB, I did put about a dozen or more balls into a paper plate at 45 yds useing a mix of .535 up to .570 balls useing patches, tow wadding, bare ball and over shot cards and other combos, all useing the same powder load in my .58 you can probably get down to  3" group at 45-50 yds if you can hold on it good but will find that most any combination will give a pie plate group at that range.

[The Baron]

I have a Caywood .62 smoothie.  I load both shot and PRB.  With this gun I've taken a half dozen gobblers and several geese with shot, but have not yet hunted with PRB.

I have used both FFg and FFFg and have settled on 3f for my main charge.  I got good results from both, but I like 3f because I can prime with it as well with no perceptible change in ignition speed from using 4f and so I only need to buy one powder.

For shot:  For hunting geese and ducks, I load 80gr - 90gr. 3f, one over-powder card, 1 pre-lubed felt wad, then 1 oz Bismuth #4 (measured with a shot measure).  I find with the heavy felt wads, they tend to blow through the pattern and create a sort of "doughnut" effect.  Fine for shooting flying targets out to 25 yards, but not good for turkeys.

I have done a lot of experimenting for turkey loads, and have used everything up to 100gr. powder / 1 1/2oz. shot, plastic shot cups, paper shot cups, fiber wads, felt wads, etc.  My best turkey load patterns are with 80gr. 3f, 4 thin over-powder cards on the charge, 1 1/8oz #6 lead (about 100gr. equiv. in my powder measure) and 1 overshot card to hold it all in.  My gun is also a straight cylinder bore, and this gives me 100% certainly to 20 yards, and perhaps a few yards extra.  I found a visible difference in eliminating the thick wads/cards on top of the charge, and my patterns have a nice dense core with using only thin cards.  Plastic shot cups did provide a minor advantage (maybe a few extra yards) but I chose not to use them as it didn't feel right to be loading plastic into a PC gun.  My experiments with paper shot cups were a dismal failure as I got no consistency.  I'm sure that is the fault of my technique, but I abandoned the experiments none-the-less.

I have also tried lead #4 and the edge went to #6's for pattern density.  With a max. range of say 25 yards, #6's retain more than enough energy to penetrate the head/neck of a gobbler.  Although, every gun if different.  My T/C New Englander patterns #4's tighter than #6's, so the turkeys I killed with it fell to #4's.

For PRB:  I have never hunted with PRB, but my gun shoots very well with anywhere from 60 - 80gr. 3f and a 0.595" roundball in lubed 0.010" patch.  Point of impact changes with the variance in powder charge, but grouping is surprisingly similar.  This load is not too tight in my smoothie, but shoots well (about 3-4" at 25 yards and 8" at 50).  I don't like a PRB combo that needs real force to load, and I don't see the necessity to do so in a smooth bore anyway.  I have tried different combos, but always came back to the .595" ball / 0.010" patch.   Part of the reason I went with 0.595" balls is because I don't cast my own and they are more economical - they fall right on the price break at TOTW (.595" balls are $10.25 for 50 and .600" are $7.95 for 25).  I figure there's no game in my neck of the woods that will notice the 0.005" difference in ball diameter, and it saves me a little more than a dime per shot.

[Captchee]

My load for turky in my Tulle is much the same as yours .
80 grains of 3F . But I use #7 shot . 1 ˝ oz to 2 . And I don’t aim for body shots . Turkeys feathers are like armor and they absorb a lot even  when using #2 and 4 or .
 I also don’t use a wad . This seems to blow the pattern all to pieces
What I do is use 2 over the powder cards , the first one dry and the second one I put in my mouth and get all  wet with spit . I then push it down over the  first heavy card and then add my shot . Which is held in place with a light over the shot card .
 I find a lot of times folks get this card mixed up with the powder cards . The over the shot card is very thin  and only about the thickness of a playing card at most .
 At 30 yards this load in my tulle  consistently puts 10 to 12  shot in the head and neck .

 As was said  when working up a load equal parts is the way to start . But past that it doesn’t mater . A tighter group will be achieved  with more shot the powder .

 Now  as to RB . My tulle will also hold a nice 2 to 3 inch pattern at 20 yards . 50 yards it stays inside a paper plate .
 What I do is use a  soft wad “this is not a hard fiber wad but a soft  one  I make from horse hair carpet pad “
 This I soak in a mix of  toilet bowl wax , bee’s wax and Windex. This results in a  somewhat gooey wad when its hot but   I can live with that .
 I then load the ball on top of this and  hold it in place with an over the shot card .
 What happens is the ball presses into the  soft wad  thus making somewhat of a cup .
 For powder I keep the 80 grains of 3F .
2F is alittle less on recoil but the POI suffers alittle .

 The other thing you may find helpful is to remember that the Tulle isn’t an English gun . Its built to  be shot from a more back position  not forward   as with English designs .
 Its alittle hard to get used to  as we want to snuggle up  into the wrist .
I had a hard time with mine tell a person showed me the differences .

 Next time you out shooting , try  leaning your head back so your cheek is  is back , just in front of the
End of the buttplate tang . What you will find is the rifle  comes up to your face dead square in its pull , leaving you looking right down the top barrel flat .
 From there center  you front blade on the flat . this will leave you with only learning elevation..
Windage  is adjusted by regulating “bending the barrel “on a smooth bore  with no rear sight . This can be scary to do the first time but it is indeed how  its done .