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Author Topic: shooting the Browning 54 muzzleloader  (Read 2397 times)

Offline cdnrokon

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shooting the Browning 54 muzzleloader
« on: September 27, 2008, 11:05:45 PM »
Working up a load for my 54 and found that this frontstuffer loves a large powder load. started off with 65gr 2f and the ball was all over the place .I started to increase the load 5gr untill it started to group. And end result is 100gr  :shock:  2f 15 thou patch and Hornady hard cast ball gives me a 3inch group at 80yds

anyone else shoot this load or close to this load ?

Offline rollingb

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« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2008, 02:08:11 AM »
I've had several .54 GPR's that prefered rather stiff 90-100 grain loads, so your Browning doesn't surprise me.
Rather then skimp on powder, I use what shoots the most accurate in my rifleguns. :rt th
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« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2008, 05:43:36 AM »
My 54 likes about 90 as well......sure does make big hole, too...

Offline Chairslayer

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« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2008, 07:32:11 AM »
My .54  likes 90g too.  I dropped it to 80 once and couldn't keep a group
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Offline Pitchy

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« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2008, 09:21:46 AM »
I shoot 80 gr. fff for a hunting load in both my 54`s, but have been shootin the tops off spraypaint cans at 45 yards using 60 gr.

Edited to correct powder type from FF to FFF  :oops:
« Last Edit: September 28, 2008, 04:13:46 PM by Pitchy »
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Offline sse

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« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2008, 09:48:10 AM »
Just out of curiosity, I wonder if there is a light enough load in which the groups improve agaisn.  Maybe I should try that sometime with The Swan, my .54...
Regards, sse

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Online Bigsmoke

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« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2008, 11:00:07 AM »
Didn't the Browning use a 1-70 or 1-72 rate of twist?  Might explain its like of a heavy charge.  

The last two .54's I had both liked 85 grains Ffg, one was a Green River barrel the other was a Green Mountain.  As I recall from a long time ago, my other .54 which had a Douglas Premium also liked 80 or 85 grains.

You mentioned something about Hornady Hard Cast ball?  Is that something new?  I thought they were all swaged out of soft lead.  A few years back, they tried selling an antimony flavored ball for use with a polypatch.  It was only available in .50 cal and was .485 diameter.

What size ball are you using in your Browning?  Sometimes going from .530 to .535 can make some dramatic results in accuracy as well.
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Offline vermontfreedom

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« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2008, 11:13:43 AM »
My .54 has 1:72 twist, so it prefers a fast ball.

I started with 90 grains FFg Swiss (about 1825 fps with 230-grain 0.535).

Dropped to 80 grains FFg Swiss (about 1750-1775 fps) just to conserve powder - groups actually improved a little bit.

That's my hunting load and my practice load.

Occasionally I'll tinker with other loads at the range just for something else to do.

Does well with 80 grains FFg Goex/Schuetzen/KIK (all about 1550-1650 fps with Schuetzen on the low end and KIK on the high end).
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Offline sse

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« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2008, 01:03:57 PM »
Vermont, who made that barrel?  I'm pretty sure The Swan has 1:66 with the Green Mountain barrel. I was thinking that Swiss would be too hot closer to 100 gr of Ffg.  My .54 does good with 95 gr GOEX Ffg...
Regards, sse

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Offline rollingb

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« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2008, 09:12:54 PM »
Quote from: "sse"
Vermont, who made that barrel?  I'm pretty sure The Swan has 1:66 with the Green Mountain barrel. I was thinking that Swiss would be too hot closer to 100 gr of Ffg.  My .54 does good with 95 gr GOEX Ffg...

Jimmy,... the Swan has a 1:70 Green Mountain barrel. :)
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Offline sse

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« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2008, 09:59:58 AM »
Well, thankee, Rondo.  Yer memory's better than mine... :shake
Regards, sse

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Offline Pitchy

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« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2008, 12:10:22 PM »
Switching to FFF from FF made all the difference in my Blue Ridge 54, which has a 1-65 twist i beleave.
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Offline vermontfreedom

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« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2008, 09:51:24 PM »
Quote from: "sse"
Vermont, who made that barrel?

Rice.

I asked specifically for a slightly slower twist than standard because I hope someday to use the .54 on elk or moose, so I knew I'd want to load hot/fast, for which the slower twist should be better.

It's worked great for me.
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Offline Captchee

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« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2008, 09:09:04 AM »
in my 54 i use  80 grains of 3F for RB  and 110 of 3F for conical . the twist in the barrel is 1 in  70 .

as to the differences in 2F and 3F .
2F is a slower burn  because its bigger  in grain .
 Now keep in mind this all happens in milla seconds . But basically what happens is it takes longer for the 2F grain “ when compared to 3F” to completely combust . This allow the projectile to be moved down the bore some before the entire charge is ignited . Thus you barrel pressures are lower  then  would be found with a comparable load of 3F..
 But if your using 3F , simply reducing the charge by 10  to 15 grains “depending on powder maker “  will normally bring  3F down to comparable pressures of 2F . Notice I didn’t say exsact , just comparable .

 However what will not change is the area where the  pressure spike takes place . 3F being a faster  burn , it produces a steeper spike  then 2F and thus  spikes sooner in the barrel
Again remember this is milliseconds , but it does play  an effect  on the end result .

 Now   one of the differences in powder manufactures is the charcoal they use. Different charcoals  produce different burn rates . Which again results in different barrel pressures  . thus giving different muzzle velocities  for like loads . Swiss is hotter the Goex  and  as such  the charge can be reduced  when comparing the two , so as to bring the Swiss into the  Pressure range that  you  get when using Goex . Thus lb for Lb. you can actually use less Swiss   to get the same results as a lb of Goex .
Again  myself I have found this reduction to be in the 10 to 15 grain range .

 See its really a game of pressures . At what pressure range does my rifle  throw the best  and most consistent pattern

 Now SSE ask if there is a lighter load in which  accuracy will improve again  . Well in theory  the answer would be yes. That yes " in theory" is true for both a lower and a higher  charge .
 See pressure in a barrel  creates what’s called harmonics. IE barrel harmonics  .
As a charge goes off , the barrel  for lack of a better description , vibrates . This vibration is like sound waves . The trick is to find the  pressure that produces a wave that   comes to the end of the barrel  and ends at the same  point on the wave as with a  heavier or lighter charge ..

  Now your point of aim will change but the barrels ability to  throw the ball to the same tight area  in theory  should stay  relatively the same .
 Now again this can change from barrel to barrel  because there are so many variables in play . like what the barrel is made from . the effects of diffrent types of rifling  as well as barrel thickness .

 But basically I find the  this wave is very close to being divisible or multiplied by 2  for a starting point  for finding that  harmonics .
 So say for a  barrel that likes 90 grains . One could very well find that  a lower charge  in the 45 grain area  will bring  back  you accuracy .
 The opposite also holds true . in theory  if your group starts opening back up  when you go above 90 grains , that group  would then  come back into harmonics at a higher charge .
 Now im not saying or recommending folks go out and load 180 grains of powder to test this  .

  NO that’s not the case at all .

 Again what your looking at is pressures  . BP doesn’t produce  a  set given pressure  that’s multipliable .
 IE  20 grains of 3F does NOT  produce 2X the pressure as 10 grains .
 BUT if one takes the time to  figure out barrel pressures  you can then start to learn barrel harmonics  and how they relate to those pressures  and then calculate  the  harmonic waves that will  hold accuracy .

 Did I totally confuse you all LOL  :oops:

Offline cdnrokon

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« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2008, 09:22:33 PM »
I am using the 530 size ball, after all that has been said i will do some more testing with ball size and powder types I will try 3f at my next outing... but it will have to wait Black powder deer season is on here in Manitoba and I am filling tags  
Quote from: "bigsmoke"
Didn't the Browning use a 1-70 or 1-72 rate of twist?  Might explain its like of a heavy charge.  

The last two .54's I had both liked 85 grains Ffg, one was a Green River barrel the other was a Green Mountain.  As I recall from a long time ago, my other .54 which had a Douglas Premium also liked 80 or 85 grains.

You mentioned something about Hornady Hard Cast ball?  Is that something new?  I thought they were all swaged out of soft lead.  A few years back, they tried selling an antimony flavored ball for use with a polypatch.  It was only available in .50 cal and was .485 diameter.

What size ball are you using in your Browning?  Sometimes going from .530 to .535 can make some dramatic results in accuracy as well.