Traditional Muzzleloading Association
Shooting Traditional Firearms and Weapons => Long Range Muzzleloading => Topic started by: The Miner '49er on February 12, 2023, 04:12:30 PM
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I really like Rev War history which dovetails with shooting BP guns. Last year, a long-distance rifle match was part of our postal shoot. It was fun, a challenge (an 8 1/2" x 11" target at 100 yards), but on a good day, a doable one. Now imagine shooting at a 7"x10" target at 250 yards, one cold bore shot, standing. That was Capt. Daniel Morgan's make it or not test to qualify to be one of his famed Sharpshooters who used those newfangled long guns with rifling! Scaled down for 100 yards that shingle measures 2 7/8"x4" see it below. I'm personally challenging myself by making my fouling shot, prior to shooting Nessmuk's monthly postal match, by shooting at one of these scaled targets at 100 yards. If I ever do it, you will probably never know about it due to the massive coronary I'll probably suffer. Seriously, try it if you dare and be sure to post your target and brag to high heaven. If you do [ Invalid Attachment ] it, drinks are on me --Sam Adams Boston lager-- of course! ONE SHOT, COLD BORE, STANDING, 100 YARDS, 2 7/8"x4" TARGET. Good luck!!! PLEASE SEE REPLY#180, I HAVE CHANGED THE REWARD FOR THIS CHALLENGE.
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May I wait until the weather warms up? :luff:
~Kees~
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Of course you can, WH! And I bet while you're waiting that target will begin calling to you like it's doing to me. I keep hearing "do you feel lucky, soldier, well do you?" I went to the library today and made 8 copies, one for the next time I hit the range and the rest for this year's postals. I plan to use my standard 25 yard load of 50 grains of 3F with a .490 ball and I'm thinking that will require about 9" of holdover at 100. Thanks for deciding to give it a whirl. I hope more guys do the same.
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Well, the cold bore caveat scares me but challenge accepted!! My first shot at every practice session, club match and Postal match will be at that little postage stamp target.
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Way to go, Nessmuk, that makes 3 of us! Any more guys want to try for a spot in Morgan's latter day company of old timer irregulars like me? Remember, along with the fame comes some Sam Adams lager. Can't wait for April fools day to start your postals.
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I'll give it a try with the ol' .45 caliber flintlock. Probably won't get to it until April sometime. :bl th up
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OK, Joe! That makes 4, and there's plenty more room in the boat. Who else wants in?
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Can I tape my binoculars to my barrel before shooting my target? By the way, walking 600 miles and taking part in a battle does not seem like a very nice prize for accomplishing this amazing feat.
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Sure . . . just duct tape the ramrod first! :laffing
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Can I tape my binoculars to my barrel before shooting my target? By the way, walking 600 miles and taking part in a battle does not seem like a very nice prize for accomplishing this amazing feat.
walking 600 miles and taking part in a battle
That's a good point for sure. On the bright side however (but it didn't always work out for the Riflemen as IMHO I don't believe some Officer's of the Line) quite understood how to deploy them... However, when the Riflemen were used as intended - we know they were very effective, and feared.
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Don, as long I'm at the range, I might as well throw my fouling shot somewhere in the general vicinity of one of those 100 yd. targets. By the way, do you think any of those Morgan team members couldn't have hit a bull in the butt with a banjo but just got lucky and lobbed one into that shingle? Well there's two things for certain, I ain't got no banjo and I
ain't planning on getting that close to a bull.
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What's a library , they still exist ??
I'll play .
I'm stocked up for a season of sulfur burnin' .
Kevin
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I think it's doable / and as No Powder has mentioned, there very well may have been some luck involved with some shooters. If you think about it; the 9 Ring on a (NRA TQ-4 100 Yard Target) is 4 inches (and that's hit 'able offhand at 100 Yards), so one's windage is the key to staying inside that 2-7/8" width... At my age I'll be happy if I hit anywhere on the 8.5" x 11" paper that has the 2-7/8" x 4" target on... :toast
I do wonder from an historical view / if the shooters taking part in trying out for Morgan's Rifle Corp - if they were allowed some shot to get their "Range" - as many of these fellers were woodsmen - and hunted in the woods - so their odds of taking 200 yard shots in the woods (back then) seem pretty slim to me when they were out hunting... I really can't see where they could simply walk up to the firing line and hit a 5x7 inch shingle - without first having taken some practice shots... Just my opinion.
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Glad to see No Powder and KDubs join in. Right now that makes a "six-pack" of shooters. Anyone else thirsty for fame and beer? Good point about the windage, Joe.
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That's sure is a good point Joe. I also like to shoot a fouling shot before shooting any competition targets. And I would think with all the bear grease in their barrels ,they surely would do something similar. I've found that the P.O.I. is a little different than the next shot out of a fouled barrel.
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If possible, what I would like to see; is a "close up" of an actual "Rifleman's Rifle" & its Front & Rear Sights from that time period.
I'd think that their front sight would have had to be very low to the barrel & just fine enough to draw a 200 yards bead. That would be some interesting viewing to compared our sight arrangement to their sight arrangement... And one could no doubt build off that - for 200 yard shooting...
Of course, knowing your chosen Rifle's likes and dislikes - are everything. :shake
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So this morning I went to my range to do my normal Wednesday practice. I brought three .36 Cal caplock rifles and The '49er's postage stamp target. My understanding of the challenge is 100yds. offhand, postage stamp target and a cold bore. I fired one shot each. Results? Let's just say I don't have to print another target for next time, the one I have is just fine. :luff: :luff: :luff: :luff:
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Would I be too nosey if I were to ask if you were close. I only had five targets printed. That should last me about 10 to 20 years.
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Nessmuk, when you said "postage Stamp target" / now that put it into prospective for sure... I guess I'll just wobble around until my front sight covers the stamp / pull the trigger / and hope for the best... :laffing
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What happened, Nessmuk, did all three rifles have bent barrels? In your hands, after the assault, that target should have looked like a piece of Swiss cheese. Well you DO get extra credits for helping the environment by not causing another tree to give its life to become a target. :laffing Reality check - I haven't tried it yet but I expect identical results.
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Nope, it's not nosey at all. the target paper was 8.5 x 11 inches, the target holder was 24 x 24 inches, I hit cardboard twice, one high, one right and high. The third out of my 20" barreled Canoe gun, hit the berm. I'll try with my three .45s next time. The law of averages is on my side.
:bigsmile:
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Considering the firearm you were using, you did a mighty fine job. I wouldn't have wanted to be standing where your target was hanging. As much as I hate cleaning muzzleloaders, I can't imagine having to clean 3 of them. My hats off to you. I'm not looking forward to those 2 extra trips down to the 100yd. backstop, but I had to make an extra trip downrange the other day to pull my ramrod out of the ground, so I better not complain.
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Our club, the old "White River Brigade" (our local Range Traditional ML Chapter) - we use to shoot at a 17" round gong from 200 yards and it was very hit-'able... I also read where Morgan's men put on shooting displays using the 5x7 inch shingle from 60 yards... I also read where (from what I gathered) a Company of Riflemen would "flock" shoot at a group of 5 x 7 inch shingles from 200 yards;
https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/morgans-sharpshooters-revolutionary-war/457069
So I do wonder if that 60 yards at a 5x7 shingle may have grown into a "propaganda of the time" - that every man being able to hit a 5x7 shingle from 200 yards / as the reality of the 60 yards was demonstrated "first" by a Company of Riflemen, and later the entire Company would shoot a couple volley's at the 5 x7 inch shingles from 200 yards??? I don't know / just throwing out some speculation, which is great propaganda???
However, this I do know for a fact; It is not one bit hard at all to hit a 17 inch round gong offhand from 200 yards (which is just about the average sized man's shoulder width...
Remember / propaganda goes all the way back to the "organization" of civilization / and it comes in very handy against one's enemies / especially if your enemies are carrying muskets -vs- Long Rifles that can mark out to 200 yards...
I'll also mention / note; that IMHO - a 17" gong really doesn't look that small at all / but a target (basically the size of playing card at 100 yards) does.
Just some prospective on 200 yard shooting. It's a subject that can be discussed quite a bit.
(And, truth be know - (most of us old-timers) by now, have probably sent more shots (by far) down Range then our Ancestors ever did...
:shake
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Joe, you brought up some great food for thought. The 17" gong at 200 is 227 sq inches. I have never shot a ml at more than 100, at an 8 1/2x11 (93 sq") target, but it seems reasonable that it is doable - twice the distance and a bit more than twice the size. The article mentions shooting at a Colonial dollar sized bullseye (1 1/2") at 60. That's about 1.75 sq". The 5x7 board at 250 is 35 sq". The 7x10 shingle that I mentioned is, of course, 70 sq", shot at, supposedly, from 250 yards. The 100 yard "postage stamp" target is about 12 sq". What all this number slinging means to me is that it's all pretty much equivalent in difficulty. Your "propaganda" mention also makes a lot of sense. Every time I tell the story of my boar 🐗 hunt last year, he seems to get bigger by about 50 pounds and the distance increases by about 10 yards. I'm really beginning to impress myself! Anyone wanting to read more about Morgan, get a copy of Daniel Morgan Revolutionary Rifleman by Don Higginbotham. Good luck to all of us who tackle the postage stamp.
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In your reading, did it ever mention whether Mr. Morgan himself could hit this 250 yd. target?
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Sorry, but no. There isn't a lot in the book about his recruiting men for his two companies, but he was a heck of a guy. His finest hour was the battle of Cowpens, SC. It's impressive to tour that battlefield, look at the lay of the land, and imagine yourself there. He was the kind of leader you'd follow to hell and back.
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:shakeSome Patched Ball perspective here;
Sea Level / .45 caliber Patched Ball / 1800 fps
Well within aiming at the top of a "Redcoats" head and ball dropping into his groin or legs / or just aim high off the top of his hat / head...
Yds..Vel....Energy...Drop...Drift....TOF(sec)
0 1800 983 -0.5 0.0 0.000
50 1233 462 3.3 0.0 0.101
75 1074 350 2.8 0.0 0.167
100 982 293 0.0 0.0 0.240 *100 Yd Zero*
125 906 249 -5.6 0.0 0.319
150 841 215 -14.7 0.0 0.405
175 781 185 -28.0 0.0 0.498
200 724 159 -46.3 0.0 0.598
Here's a link to calculate your Ballistics;
http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/rbballistics/web_apps/rb_ballistics.html
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If possible, what I would like to see; is a "close up" of an actual "Rifleman's Rifle" & its Front & Rear Sights from that time period.
I'd think that their front sight would have had to be very low to the barrel & just fine enough to draw a 200 yards bead. That would be some interesting viewing to compared our sight arrangement to their sight arrangement... And one could no doubt build off that - for 200 yard shooting...
Of course, knowing your chosen Rifle's likes and dislikes - are everything. :shake
FWIW, the original Dickert I shot out to 400 yards had a front site that measured about .119" in height, and .021" at the thickest (base), tapering smaller towards the muzzle. The rear sight was roughly 9" from the breech, about .240" in height, and had a notch that looked like a knife-nick. The sights on a Kibler Colonial are very similar (though the Dickert had a silver front blade). To aim the Dickert at 200 yards I had to hold the top of the blade over the top of the rear sight.
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That's just about what I was a thinking it would be (there about) in that neighborhood! :bl th up
Kind 'a like "Sight Base Aiming" LongWalker?
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A bit more about the shooting ability of the men who Morgan sought. In a letter, one of Morgan's contemporaries, Richard Henry Lee, said that they displayed remarkable dexterity and that in shooting contests they desired targets at least 200 yards distant and no larger than an orange. Whatever the truth was, they sure knew how to use those "curious muskets" that weren't the usual smooth bores.
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I do think it's fair to say of those feller's back then, that they knew their rifle and their capabilities - as it was an everyday survival tool that was used a lot for hunting / protection / and the good ol' shooting match that usually followed Church services on Sunday in their settlements.
I wouldn't want to shoot against them in a shooting match / and I darn sure would want them by my side if some dangerous shooting was called for! IMHO, you just can't beat an American Rifleman! :toast
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10-4 good buddy! Here's a thought that might speak to their shooting ability. If many guys were so adept that they wanted orange sized or smaller targets at 200 yards, maybe that cold bore shot at a 7x10 shingle at 250 was Morgan's way of going EASY on the newbies who were trying for a spot in one of his companies! :toast
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Heck, I'd want them on my team whether or not they shot the shingle or the orange. :toast
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That's just about what I was a thinking it would be (there about) in that neighborhood! :bl th up
Kind 'a like "Sight Base Aiming" LongWalker?
The sight base didn't really come into play til about 300 yards; by 400 I was holding on the barrel. . . .
The really bad part of such low sights is the way we do our shoots today. Instead of 20 or however many shooters lining up, firing one shot, then going to the back of the line (letting barrels cool) while waiting to shoot again, we do 20 minute relays. The heat waves coming off the barrel make such low sights very hard to use. I know I'll be changing the sights on the Kibler, won't know to what til I get it in hand.
The more I think about it, the more I think my Leman will keep the same sights as it has now. When I rebuild my personal rifle I'll be changing the rear sight to a folding leaf jaeger style, with the fixed leaf filed to what the Brits call an "express sight", and the front will get changed to a lower bead kinda like the Dickert had.
I'm looking forward to getting the Kibler done so I can play more in games like these!
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A bit more about the shooting ability of the men who Morgan sought. In a letter, one of Morgan's contemporaries, Richard Henry Lee, said that they displayed remarkable dexterity and that in shooting contests they desired targets at least 200 yards distant and no larger than an orange. Whatever the truth was, they sure knew how to use those "curious muskets" that weren't the usual smooth bores.
Hmmm. They must have had eagle eyes to even SEE an orange at 200 yards. I think I would be hard put to see one at that distance even with 8 power binoculars!
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Well, I tried again Sunday before our regular match. I was using my .45 TC Hawken. Just one Rifle as it was pretty breezy on Sunday. I took a nice big chunk out of the target, enough said. ;banghead;. Would someone else please try it and share your tale of woe?
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I've tried twice now . First time with 45 TC Hawken. Shot 5" to the left of the edge of the shingle. Second time with 50 TC Renegade. This time I shot 7" to the right of the edge of the shingle. Doesn't look too promising.
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Well, Nessmuk and No Powder, I haven't tried yet. I might get a chance dyring the last three weeks of the month if the weather cooperates. Trouble is it's getting colder and rain and snow might be coming. You guys aren't giving me much hope, though. Those Rev citizen/soldiers must have been some tough guys who never wasted a precious lead ball.
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Well I tried the shingle target again today . But I don't know if I have a tale of woe or not. If 1/2 of the ball has to be inside the shingle, it's a tale of woe .If it only has too hit the edge of the shingle, it's a tale of lucky success. I will try to post a picture if my wife will help. The temp was about 34 with a bit of wind. I've been trying to play with Schuetzen powder, so after shooting my fouling shot at the shingle, I shot 3 more shots at 50yds. My fingers were beginning to feel like popsicles by that time and I decided to go home.
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Mrs. No Powder, please help him post the picture. We're on pins and needles waiting. :applaud :applaud
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Well, nuff said.
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Kevin
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KDubs, that looks like a solid attempt with terrific results, especially considering it was done with a whopping sized ball, a huge gob of powder, and a smoothbore to boot! You have my respect, and I don't ever want you shooting at me! Great job. I hope you keep trying and also try it with a rifled barrel. Great pics, thanks. :)
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Kevin, there are a bunch of good smooth bore shooters in this group, and you're one of them.
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Well I'm more lucky than good . thanks so much.
This is my kit I built a yr or so ago. This was Probably my 5th shot from it. Don't have a set charge yet.
I need to shoot it a lot more . I spent some time over the winter tuning the lock and learning about flintlocks a la Mike belivue. Sorry to here of his dilemma.
I'll keep trying, .54 hawken is next and for fun maybe a .54 great Plains pistol. Why not.
Kevin
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Kevin, you needed to patch the ball.
A silk patch would have given you a flatter trajectory.
Don't believe it? Watch Last of the Mohicans.
John (Bigsmoke)
PS, Good shooting to even hit the paper.
J
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I will patch John, I will.
Just wanted to see if a traditional powder ball wad would work.
Still need to figure out my charge of powder .
Weather here is finally turning towards spring so ...yippee.
Kevin
Ps going to fawn creek rondy in Montana Apr 6-9.
I understand there is a " shotgun shoot" .
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Earlier in this thread, Ohio Joe mentioned a "flock" shoot. I've never heard of that before, so I need an explanation.
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I was looking back at the threads on shooting and videos made by Idaholewis. I bet if that rascal was shooting at that shingle, he would put one right in the middle. Maybe even using a Renegade.
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Earlier in this thread, Ohio Joe mentioned a "flock" shoot. I've never heard of that before, so I need an explanation.
Riflemen would "flock" shoot at a group of 5 x 7 inch shingles from 200 yards;
Lets say a Company of Riflemen lined up in front of a couple (3 or 4 boards / one board above the other with 5 x 7 shingles on it, one above the other) - and a Company of Riflemen all shot at the same time and hit some of those shingles from 200 yards... Now that would be a sight to see, and the crowd watching would no doubt talk about that for a long time - and Morgan himself knowing that word of this feat would eventually reach the British Army's Soldiers - and strike some long-range fear into the British Ranks.
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A single Rifleman shooting at a wall of 5x7 shingles - he's bound to hit one / or at least the odds are in his favor... He (they) could always say that was the one that he was aiming at... And how would anyone know?
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I was looking back at the threads on shooting and videos made by Idaholewis. I bet if that rascal was shooting at that shingle, he would put one right in the middle. Maybe even using a Renegade.
He most likely would!!! Tom, I do enjoy his videos!!! :hairy
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Thanks Joe. I'm sure if I would see several riflemen simultaneously hit several shingles at 200yds. I would certainly talk about it for some time. And if I were the enemy, and heard about this feat, I'd be running wth my tail between my legs.
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Another Attempt, another miss :Doh!! Tomorrow is another Day!!
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I have to get out and give it a try as well Nessmuk, if I can ever catch some decent weather. Probably about another month...
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I hope you can get out soon Joe. I know what it's like to have the bug and can't do anything about it. IIRC, all the postal shooters had trouble with the elements last year. Especially the wind. I don't suppose this year will be any different. Wouldn't it be nice to have an indoor shooting range. My club has an indoor range, but the maximum distance you can shoot is 25yds. and maximum caliber is.22. So much for smoke pole shooting. Sounds like most of our targets will be shot at 25yds. (Just guessing). Maybe the wind won't be as big of an issue . Cross your fingers. Nessmuk ,I guarantee your perseverance will pay off. Hang in there buddy.
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It will eventually warm up and the wind will go down, but I don't even try to predict northwest Nebraska weather of when it'll happen... :shake
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I will patch John, I will.
Just wanted to see if a traditional powder ball wad would work.
Still need to figure out my charge of powder .
Weather here is finally turning towards spring so ...yippee.
Kevin
Ps going to fawn creek rondy in Montana Apr 6-9.
I understand there is a " shotgun shoot" .
I would also recommend going to the Eureka, MT Tobacco Valley RDV, if they are still having it. The town used to really get behind it. I didn't find any info about this years event, but this URL is for last year.
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://onlinewithtvnews.files.wordpress.com/2022/04/rendezvous-guide.pdf
Last year it was held the end of April and the first of May. Much more to do than any other rendezvous I have been to, including previous RDV's there.
Thinking I might be in Idaho for CdA and Moscow RDV's
John (Bigsmoke)
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Another Attempt, another miss :Doh!! Tomorrow is another Day!!
I think one of our friends in Ohio is going to try the shingle tomorrow. You failed to give us any particulars about your last attempt.
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Morgan's Shingle - first attempt. I'll begin by saying that based on today's results, the First Sergeant took away my rifle and then handed me a smoothbore musket, complete with bayonet, and showed me where to stand with the rest of my squad in the front rank. :P Actually, I did a little better than expected. Using 50 gr of 3F and a patched .490 ball, I aimed about 10" above the top of the "postage stamp". If the shot would have been 7" to the right, it would have kissed the top edge and duplicated No Powder's target. Oh well, there are no Morgan's Sharpshooters named Shoulda, Woulda, or Coulda. Next month is attempt #2.
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Next month is attempt #2.
Wait! we only get one shot per month? :o
~Kees~
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I don't think so Kees. Because Nessmuk took several rifles to the range and shot one shot out of each of them. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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No, Winter Hawk, there is no limit to how often you or anyone else attempts it. The only requirements are: offhand, and just one cold bore shot, at the scaled 100 yard target. I know I will be making my attempt each month of the postal matches, so that's why I said "next month." If I decide to shoot Clementine more often then I will have a few more opportunities. Good luck to all.
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PHEW, thank you. I was getting worried there.... :lol sign
~Kees~
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ARRRGH!!!!! I'm getting tired of reporting missed attempts at the Capt. Morgan challenge, at least this time I hit paper.
A quick question for the Miner 49er, how long does it take for a barrel to become "Cold Bore"?
If I go to practice and try the Challenge with my .45, miss, naturally. Practice for an hour or so with my .40 (not at the Challenge target or distance).
Then before I leave can I pick up the now cold .45 and try one more time at the Challenge?
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Oh, Nessmuk, that's a tough nut to crack. Since this is a personal challenge, it's up to each person to do it as he or she sees fit. As for me, "cold bore" means no patched ball has been shot from it, but I'm not laying down "the law." I have only tried once. I walked down posted the target, walked back, loaded old Clementine and gave it a go, then I muttered something under my breath. For me that meant no more trys that day from that rifle as the bore was now fouled. Great question, let's see what other guys think.
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I have to report abject failure today; an inch or so below and another inch to the right of the bottom right corner of the paper. At least my target will be available for my next try. :applaud
As to "cold Bore", I take it to mean that the shooter hasn't taken any shots prior to his qualifying one. I see it as a test that, if Morgan's man has been slipping around in the woods scouting and sees, say a redcoat officer at long range, he has the ability to take the shot with confidence that he will take out the enemy. So by my interpretation of the rules even if the rifle has cooled off totally, the shooter has been able to practice if he shoots something else between his attempts at the shingle. Consider that back in Morgan's time the applicant probably only had one gun, so he didn't have the luxury of having warmed up with another one.
~Kees~
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I may be wrong (it's happened), but I took the rules to mean an unfouled bore.
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I think Kees nailed it. First shot of the day is the one that counts. Just like the scenario Kees laid out. Once you take that first shot, successful or not, the redcoats know exactly where you are.
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I expect most don't have a dedicated 100 yard zeroed rifle with our fixed sight muzzle loading rifle, so this very well could be a two "Range" trip challenge (or better). First trip to get that 100 yard zero (or at least to figure out where you're marking and need to aim at 100 yards (which would be the time to clean the bore between shots) - then the day(s) after that trying the challenge... But, one never knows - you might get lucky on your first trip out. It can happen if 'n you know your rifle inside and out for your hold. After all, it's just another 100 yard target you have to hit in a shooting challenge. And a good one at that!!! :bl th up
Side Note; We have over a foot of snow out here where I live (from this last storm that has went through over the last couple of days - so I won't be getting to the Range anytime soon... (or at least not until towards the end of the month) - we have drifts up to; 2 to 3 feet in a lot of areas. I'm just lucky I can get out of my alley...)
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Joe, have you been paying your taxes?
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Joe, have you been paying your taxes?
They're not suppose to be using our local tax dollars for buying snow... :laffing :Doh!
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My problem is you have to have a nearly calm day to zero-in. In Oklahoma a nearly calm day when the wind is under 15mph and those are rare as snow in KEY WEST.
:luff: :luff: :luff:
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I believe it Nessmuk! That's not a whole lot 'a difference here at our local Range when that wind sweeps down off the grasslands to my North and sweeps along the edge of these buttes and across our local Range. That's why I like to get as close as I can to our "Range Berm Dividers" and even then I think this wind simply likes to sweep down into these protected places just to show us it can! :o :laffing
But somehow (like yourself) we make it work! :shake
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I think I missed two good days to shoot by not going to the range on Monday or Tuesday . Those days would have been good for shingle shooting. But on the other hand , the range is about 11 miles away and the weather could have been completely different there. Now a cold front is moving in and the wind is picking up. That cutting the grass target looks like a real challenge to me, but I'm hoping I can shoot it next week and take another poke at that shingle.
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We have "4 to 5 foot plus" snow drifts all over the place here. The city did plow out my alley this morning (which had some big snow drifts in). It's going to be a' while before I get to the Range now... I expect our lane to our Range entrance gate is probably drifted in as well. I'm not even going to guess what it looks like inside our Range confines... But, this is NW Nebraska and this isn't all that uncommon... It'll certainly green things up when it melts!
And yes, I'll complain how danged hot it is in July and August!!! ;)
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Next time I'm up your way, Joe, I'll drop off my snow blower which hasn't been used in 4 years. I just went through it last fall, changing oil, replacing the air filter, new belt and the scraper bar. It should cut through those 4' drifts in no time! :luff:
~Kees~
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Mighty nice of you Winter Hawk! :shake
Sad part is that I live on a hill and the way my property is situated, I'd have to blow snow out of my ally just to get the blower to the street - then blow snow for a "long" (two half blocks just to get it to my front sidewalk... Least that's how I remember doing it when I had a snow blower... :laffing
I best stick with the shovel... Wife says my life insurance is paid up... (just kidding / she didn't say that)
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Yeah, traveling that alley of yours in the snow doesn't seem like it would be any fun.
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Yeah, traveling that alley of yours in the snow doesn't seem like it would be any fun.
Yes sir Hank, I know you know my layout. That was a great visit we had those years back, that's for sure. The good ol' days my friend. :shake
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Ssgt wade reporting for muster, I'll got back to peeling taters now.
Well atleast I'm closer.
Kevin
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Man-o-man, Kevin, that is one fine shot! Much closer than either of the two I have done. Great thing is, if you keep shooting like that you won't be on KP much longer. Thanks for posting it.
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Thank you. I'll post em as I get em.
Kevin
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Glad you weren't shooting at me Kevin. That woulda hurt.
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A little better than last time; at least I was on the paper! :laffing
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~Kees~
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If those are quarter inch squares, your shot was only 3" out. Great shooting! You're on the right track. :)
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If those are quarter inch squares, your shot was only 3" out. Great shooting! You're on the right track. :)
They are 1/5" squares (5 to the inch). Thank you for the encouragement! :shake
~Kees~
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That makes your shot even more impressive. I bet you will soon join Morgan's men. Good luck!
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Didn't do as well today - not on the paper.
[ Invalid Attachment ]
~Kees~
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Well, at least you litetally gave it another shot, and you're not giving up. My third attempt will be next month after Nessmuk reveals the next rondy target. I hope lady luck smiles at me. I think those of us who are going after the shingle are respecting more and more the skill of Morgan's sharpshooters.
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Kees, when that happens, always blame it on the wind. And please don't reply back that it wasn't windy. It's always windy.
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Kees, when that happens, always blame it on the wind. And please don't reply back that it wasn't windy. It's always windy.
That almost made me spray coffee on the keyboard! :laffing
But yes, we are shooting at 100 yards where the trajectory is relatively flat; those guys were at 250 yards and having to compensate for the rainbow effect. How high to do you aim over the target to hit it at that range? Even if you increase the powder charge you are in the "guess and a prayer" area of aiming!
~Kees~
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Kees, If it makes you feel any better, I tried again today and wasn't too close to the paper. Tried a different gun this time, and it appears that was a bad decision. But I won't give up on it. Maybe need to tweak the sights a bit . Is your shot on that last target in the tape on the right upper corner ? If so, that is really close.
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Tomorrow I go out for my 8th attempt at the challenge, I've hit paper 3 times (edges only) Forecasted wind 3MPH. Wish me luck!
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The Blind Hog finds the Acorn OR Persistence Pays Off!!
Yesterday I finally managed it to nick the black on Capt. Morgan's challenge!
It was so close I couldn't even tell for sure on my spotting scope.
[ Invalid Attachment ]
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Way to go Nessmuk. That was a better shot than mine. They used to say, third time is a charm ,now it is eighth time is a charm.
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Strike up the band for Nessmuk!! Oh, mama, he DID it, he got the mini shingle, or as he dubbed it "the postage stamp" target. Wow, THAT is a good solid hit and some fine shooting. I'm happy to see that Capt. Morgan now has another Sharpshooter. Mark, please pm me your mailing address so I can forward the Captain's wallet sized portrait of Alex Hamilton so you can enjoy some Sam Adams Boston lager, or your fav celebratory drink. :hairy :toast :applaud
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:yessir: outstanding cadet.
Kevin
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Kees, Is your shot on that last target in the tape on the right upper corner ? If so, that is really close.
Yes sir, that would be the bullet hole. And thank you for saying it was close, but we ain't playing horseshoes here!
Question: how many times did Morgan allow someone to come back and try again? It was probably one shot and you're out, I imagine.
~Kees~
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Question: how many times did Morgan allow someone to come back and try again? It was probably one shot and you're out, I imagine.
I believe you are right. There wouldn't have been time to allow guys to return another time, or day, for a do over. The goal was to get the cream of the crop, so I believe a guy stepped up and literally gave it his best shot.
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:bl th up
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My July attempt at the mini shingle was a good solid attempt. I solidly missed the shingle. I solidly missed the 8 1/2 X 11 paper it was printed on, and I solidly missed the backer (approximately 16 X 24). Now that's what I call a good solid attempt. We won't talk about the results, though! :stooges:
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As of today I'm 0 for 6 :Doh! Anyone else still in the game?
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Well I will with this new kibler once I get it sighted in.
Kevin
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Actually, I've been trying with my .32. 0 for 3 so far. Shooting 45 gr of Goex. I hit the board once so far
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I tried again today. Not on paper, but close (bottom left in photo).
[ Invalid Attachment ]
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While some might see a miss, I'm here to say that's a decent shot, Winter Hawk. As for me, if we were shooting at the shingles on the roof over the giant in Jack and the Bean Stalk, I might do better. Morgan's and Cresap's men really walked the walk, and so did No Powder and Nessmuk. I'd tip my tricorn if I had one.
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Well, I'm 0 for 7. :P It took Nessmuk eight attempts, so maybe next time, or #9, or maybe #10 will do it. If I don't succeed in ten tries, I think I'll throw in the towel. :pray: [ Invalid Attachment ]
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:hairy It looks like a teensie shift of the rear sight to the right would put you on! That is an impressive target, shooting cold and offhand. I need to get out and make another try. Also to shoot the September target(s). :toast
~Kees~
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Thanks, WH. I agree that a sight shift would help, some, but how do I cure the yips that happen every time I draw down on that shingle? I hope you shoot the Sept targets, but fair warning, the King's X will drive you crazy. :stooges:
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The "Yips"? Is that what it's called? The tiny little terrors you feel when you sight down the barrel and and realize this is the one that really counts?
I still get those. BTW, I'm still trying with my .32. 12 attempts to date and only hit paper twice. By the way, does this challenge have an expiration date?
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Yes, the challenge ends on the "expiration" of the shooter! YMMV.:laffing
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Hey, did you catch the comment made by No Powder in The Campfire section in which he thanks his B-day well-wishers? If you read it carefully, and I missed it the first time, he hit the 100 yard mini shingle, the "postage stamp" a second time! Yep, lightning might not strike twice in the same place, but No Powder does! As the late, great Gunny used to say, "Outstanding!" He received another, larger, Alex Hamilton portrait for his achievement. Can anybody else, Nessmuk perhaps, catch up to him? :applaud :toast. I know that Winter Hawk is still trying, and so am I, but anyone else got the grit to try?
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Ha Ha Ive gotta wait for the weather to cool down! ;)
Sorry I'm coming in so late. But I'llgive it a shot. :Doh!
Salty
May I wait until the weather warms up? :luff:
~Kees~
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I admire your enthusiasm Salty. Keep up the good work.
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Well as of 10/12 I'm 0 for 8 on the shingle. I missed the shingle, the sheet it is printed on, and the entire backer. It's finally dawned on me (I'm a slow learner) that had I been a Rev war army recruit I would have qualified for spud peeler first class rather than one of Morgan or Cresap's guys. I think I have two more tries in me before I wave the while flag. :Doh!
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Well as of 10/12 I'm 0 for 8 on the shingle. I missed the shingle, the sheet it is printed on, and the entire backer. It's finally dawned on me (I'm a slow learner) that had I been a Rev war army recruit I would have qualified for spud peeler first class rather than one of Morgan or Cresap's guys. I think I have two more tries in me before I wave the while flag. :Doh!
Noooo. Don’t give up.
I missed it as well.
I asked my wife to go to the range with me to spot my shots.
Is that allowed?
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There's no reason why she couldn't spot for you, but I think that a large backer would yield more useful info to incorporate in your next cold bore attempt the next time you go to the range to try. In my case, by "big", I mean a backer the side of a refrigerator carton! 😱
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I asked my wife to go to the range with me to spot my shots.
Is that allowed?
Sure it's allowed! :bigsmile: Just remember that it is one shot per day, cold bore, first shot of the day so her spotter duties will probably consist of helping you get the target & backer. :shake
~Kees~
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Today's attempt at the Revolutionary sized target. Another close but no cigar this time. Isn't it frustrating when you are so close but yet so far away. Today's try was with a TC 54 Hawken. 65 grains of FFG Goex, a .018 printed pillow ticking patch and Lehigh Valley patch lubricant. [ Invalid Attachment ]
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Well at least your trying, I have no excuses, well I do but they are poor.
Just curious as to your POA ( how high) on the target in relation to the hit . also at what range is the TC sighted in.
that's about the same set up I shoot in my TC hawken , save a spit patch rather than lube .
Kevin
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This particular day I wanted to try some different balls & patches. So before getting serious on the bags I just thought I would try this target first. I was trying some 530 Lee cast balls that were tumbled about 2hours . Just a little flat spot remained on the balls. I always loaded that spot up. The patches were the printed ticking that I had inquired about on another thread. I normally shoot my rifles 1 1/2" - 2" high at 50yds. But I shoot lower when shooting off hand. My POA on this target has been at the top of the paper and that gets me relatively close. With my 95 gr. hunting load it would have probably shot higher.
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Here’s my latest attempt. 440 RB patched 018 ticking. 50gr Swiss3f. tC 13 lube. POA center of target.
Better luck next time.
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Hey Salty, you're like me. Close but no cigar this time. Just plain frustrating.
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Anyone try the Rev. sized target lately? Went to the range with the 45TC Hawken today to try something before the PA flintlock season. So naturally I just had to try the shingle first. And naturally I missed it big time. No cigar and not even close. I hope that's not a sign of how deer season is going to be.
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I’m gonna give it another try on Monday. Never give up.
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Well took a cold bore poke at the shingle today before my postals.
No idea where it hit(missed) but I sure didn't hit my backer let alone the shingle. Wah wah .
Kevin
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Captain Morgan Is still looking for a few more good men. Who is going to be the next latter day Sharpshooter to earn the special Alex Hamilton certificate redeemable for Sam Adams' special brew??? 🏆
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:yessir:
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You maybe have to sight that T-C in again!
:o
~Kees~
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[ Invalid Attachment ]
Dumped the TC and ran with the woodsrunner this time( well last 2 attempts)
Elevations improving :hairy
Kevin
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Kevin, good shooting there. It looks like Capt. Morgan will soon have a new recruit. Better get fitted for your uniform. :bl th up
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Kevin, you're really sneaking up on that puppy ain't you. It's gonna happen, I can feel it in my bones.
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I'm still farting around with powder charges and the same with lubes.
Just having fun.
So each time I take a cold bore shot I have some new combo I'm shooting.
Moving to 3f , gonna take a poke at it Sunday. Weather permitting.
Probably 50 grains. Maybe a spit patch or more than likely a damp patch with hoppes BP cleaner/lube. I like that stuff.
As for my TC, well I've been watching Idaho lewis videos on long range PRB shooting.
Might put some new sights fore and aft on the TC and make her a match gun. ??
Kevin
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I admire your intestinal fortitude. I haven't tried lately. Went to the range Thursday, and was going to take a poke at it, but forgot the target. I could have made one at the range, but I wanted to shoot the TMA bullseye and another target that another org. is using in their postal shoots, so I didn't make one. As of right now, I can't shoot this darn TC Hawken good at all. Hoping by shooting it, I may be able to conquer it. At the last shoot our group had, I only hit 5 out of 14 targets. I'll try it at tomorrows shoot to see if it works any better. Maybe I should do what John recommended, and sell it.
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You can sell it or turn it into a bench gun . That's what I'm thinking.
I like the idea of long range plinking. 250,500,1000 yds ?
North Idaho has a lot of space to reach out there.
Although if I sold the TC I could get another kibler or a flint pistol .
I'm lucky enough to be able to shoot in my yard. So no forgetting targets.
Be nice if a few more folks took up Capt Morgan's challenge.
Good luck and keep shooting
Kevin
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Kevin, Pardon me for Monday morning quarterbacking, but in my experience in shooting .54's, and I have had several, I have never had one that shot worth a darn with your wimpy 40 - 50 grain charges. With the exception of my first rifle, a T/C Renegade, they all seemed to like charges in the 80 - 90 grain range. And I always used Ffg GOEX powder.
I really think you need to develop your load.
Off a bench, start with 60 grains and shoot a three shot group at 25 yards. Wipe the bore and increase the charge to 65 grains. Then increase to 65 grains, etc.
With each group you should see the group size decrease. When you notice your group starting to expand, you have found your ideal load. If you want to, then you can work on other variable, like ball size, patch thickness, lubes, etc.
When you are satisfied with the load, then start working on adjusting your sights.
Pretty soon, you will be shooting the hat off of Captain Morgan's head.
John
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Good info from John. I decided I wasn't going to waste a lot of black powder at our woods walks. So I tried to find 2 loads for each of my rifles. One for woods walks, and one for deer hunting. When working on those 2 loads for my TC 54 Hawken, I discovered 65 grains was the first light load that seemed pretty accurate. Then I had to go up to 95 for the next accurate load. And if I decide to try the shingle with the 54, I'll use the 95 grain load. That's with FFG Goex, .015 TC dry patch, cut down to 1 1/8" dia. and LV patch lube. (Just saying).
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I am plan to try the Rev Challenge today if the temp stays under 100 degrees.
🥵
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100*. You could cast round balls on the sidewalk. :luff:
We're hanging in the 60-70s for the next week or so.
Much more better for me.
Good luck and go shoot ..
Kevin
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I am plan to try the Rev Challenge today if the temp stays under 100 degrees.
🥵
That's Texas for you! My Sweetie is from there. She moved to Alaska in 1972 and never looked back, except for family visits.
But, there are folks who like it there! I guess lots of businesses are moving there from the "progressive" states.
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And you cannot really blame them.
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Here's today's attempt at the Revolutionary sized target. This is what happens when you use a rifle that has a much lighter trigger pull than your other rifles. Premature shots don't cut the mustard, and don't earn any money from the 49er. :luff: [ Invalid Attachment ]
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Keep on keeping on. Still better than me.
I tried the other day with my new load ball etc. . missed 2 o'clock high by about 9" hit the guy in the next column ha!
I'll try again next time out.
Kevin
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That’s far better than my latest.
The camera lense wasn’t big enough to capture the hole.
Not giving up. Gonna keep trying. It’s only failure when you stop trying.
😩
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Do any of you guys have an almost uncontrollable urge to try again after you miss the first time? It was almost all I could do from taking another poke at it. But I instead, started working on the Sgt. York target. Was drawing a blank when trying to use this contraption today, so I don't know if Nessmuk got my pictures or not. Certainly nothing to write home about. But look on the bright side, I didn't have any misfires. :toast
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Hold on thar No Po, you only get one poke per rifle per day, as Archie used to say, "Stifle yourself", :laffing plus you're already the only two time winner in Morgan's band of brothers :bl th up, so you're probably his Sgt. Major :laffing BTW, did you put the ramrod in its proper place before firing?
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Yes and I am ashamed to admit that I succumbed to the temptation and took a second shot. Although I will only submit a target if/when I hit on the first shot as the rules state.
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Hey there's an honest man. And 49er, I figured you needed your chains rattled a little after that vacation. Furthermore if you did send me another portrait, I'd have to send it back. Salty taught me everything I know (you know, about honesty).
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Scoreboard time. AFAIK Winter Hawk, KDubs, Salty, and yours truly are the only guys trying to join Morgan's band of sharp eyed shooters. I'm 0 for 8. What's your tally to date, boys?
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I’m 0 for 4.
Should I be posting my misses?
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Only if you feel a need to confess to Captain Morgan. I was merely wondering how many attempts it takes us mere mortals to do it. To me that makes the one 'n done that our ancestors accomplished all the more impressive.
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I've been trying for a repeat for months!! my score is @24 misses, 1 hit. I guess lightning really doesn't strike twice. :Doh!
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As I recall, you "jined da boys" on attempt #8, so it really has been a dry spell since then for you. If I ever find that pot of gold 100 yards downrange ;banghead;, right then and there I'm going to retire while I'm at the top of my game. There won't be any of that "I'll try for another" for me. :stooges:
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Don't know how many times I've tried. I do know this, 2 hits out of however many times I've tried is not impressive at all.
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I'll tell you this, if hitting a playing card sized target a 100 yards away, using a prb launched from a muzzleloader, shooting with iron sights, and doing it offhand from a cold bore, and yet another time repeating that feat is considered UNimpressive, I'd like to hear what more a guy could do to make it impressive. :bow :bow :bow
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I'm always flirting with the outside edges, so what would impress me, is to put one inside of that postage stamp. Then we would think about retirement like you talked about :luff: Just kidding. I'd like to do some more polluting before hanging it up.
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not sure how many attempts I've made. 6 or 8 I think
I use a 28"x 36" white poster board with a black shingle in the center and just record pertinent info next to each shot with a sharpie for posterity.
I find it helpful having every shot on the same board.
I'm planning on a session Friday or sat or Sunday , 1 of those days at least.
I'll post a pic of my current progress .
by the way I would be quite impressed by anyone hitting that speck of a target at 100 yds. cold bore. which I plan to do! :bl th up
good luck shooters
kevin
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I like your poster board idea Kevin. I think maybe 49er may do the same thing. I wish I'd done that when I started. It's nice to look back and see where each of your shots hit.
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Yeah, I have been charting my shots, like Kevin is doing, since my first attempt. See the photo in reply #105 on 9/11/23 for all of my attempts from the first miss through my 0 for 7 attempt, and then reply #113 on 10/15/23 my 0 for 8 attempt. While I'm not winning the Sam Adams prize at least I'm being green and not destroying trees by using more than one target! :laffing
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@kdubs great idea. I’ll start that also.
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[ Invalid Attachment ]
Here's today's attempt. Man my up n down was good " but just a bit outside " as someone used to say.
Spent time testing patches afterwards.
Kevin
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I truly admire your intestinal fortitude. And I can't help but think that some day soon it's all gonna come together for you.
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Kevin, your target looks a lot like mine, unfortunately. I can't prove it, but I believe the jet black rectangle in the center of the white creates a kind of lead ball repellant force field. How else can we explain those random holes? Maybe lady luck will help us some day.
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[ Invalid Attachment ]
That's a long ways out thar!
Maybe if I move the target closer to my f150 I'll concentrate better.
Kevin
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I wouldn't dare attempt that shot or I'd end up with a ventilated pick up truck.
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It might be safe from a prb, but, if you forget to take the ramrod out of the barrel before firing a shot it could be in jeopardy. All jokes aside, nice picture. :hairy
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I'm not sure how many times I have tried & failed, miserably! Didn't even try the last time I was out. Looking at my May postal target it would have been a waste of powder & lead! :o
~Kees~
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As of today, on Memorial Day weekend 2024, this is the company roster:
Officers: Captains Morgan and Cresap (thank you for your service!)
Lieutenant Kevin Dubs, aka KDubs, from ID
NCO's: Sergeant Major Tom Faidley, aka No Powder, from PA
Corporal Mark Van der Veer, aka Nessmuk, from OK
Tater Peelers still trying to jine da boyz: Kees van Weel, aka Winter Hawk, from OH
Jim Soltis, aka Salty, from TX
Don Volkmar, aka The Miner '49er, from OH
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Howdy guys. Thanks for the recognition. I’m trying to get back out but between the temperatures, humidity and wind it’s been difficult. In a few days the winds are supposed to die down a bit and I’ll give it a shot. Who knows maybe the wind will help my shot. It’s obvious that calm days certainly haven’t helped.
🌬️💨
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Do any of you all use the “RB ballistics calculator” pinned above?
Have you found it effective? Useful?
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I suck at Math, Salty, I just like to shoot. Kentucky windage and guesstimation and a notebook for what works. :bigsmile:
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I need to start a notebook. Good idea
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I don't see anything pinned, but I use the P-max ballistics calculator for bp. Easy, accurate, free.
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@Miner’49er, gotta a link for that?
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p-max.uk
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I’m getting closer.
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You're absolutely right Salty. I'm glad I wasn't standing where that target was hanging. I tried it again today too. And I hit about an inch higher than you did. Now if I could only get my wife to clean my rifle for me, I'd say I had a pretty good day.
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Right on salty . keep at it.
I'm getting ready for our club rendezvous next weekend so I won't be trying for another 10-14 days but I will take another poke at that shingle.
Planning on using my Fowler next time .
I know you're gonna get that bugger .
Kevin
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Well, I've got a target made up. I believe I'll give it a whirl today at the club shoot.. Gonna take my 54 Tryon and a 45 longun Marty had built.
I'll let ya know how it goes if it happens to work out.
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What is it you mean, when you say if it works out? Think positive boy. If a ball comes out of that barrel when you shoot at it, we want to know all about it. Preferably where you did hit. Good luck Joe.
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Well, I did get to shoot but not at the TMA target. Rattled off 10 balls for the club shoot as a heck of a storm rolled in, so we headed on home.. Hopefully another day this week..
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Challenge change. In Feb of '23 I posted here my Revolutionary Challenge. To date, three shooters have achieved it, and AFAIK Winter Hawk and I are the only two remaining shooters who have chased that shingle for 16 months now. More recently, Salty has made some attempts to wack that shingle. Should Winter Hawk and Salty hit that mini target they will enjoy both fame and fortune. The fortune being a gen-u-ine wallet sized Alexander Hamilton portrait on a legal tender US $10 bill redeemable for some of the holy grail, Sam Adams Boston Lager. Going forward, any others who might conquer the target will enjoy fame but not fortune. I hope more guys try the challenge. It is fun, frustrating, and humbling, and I have been shown it is doable. As for first hand experience, well that's another story! 😄
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Thank you Niner’49er. Tuesday is forecast to be calm breeze off the Rio Grande so I’ll give it a try.
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Who are the three that have qualified?
Like to give them some recognition.
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You're welcome and good luck. First was No Powder, second was Nessmuk, third was KDubs. You can see their targets and announcements of their achievement if you want. I posted them.
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I'll be trying again, possibly this week! :pray:
~Kees~
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Miner ‘49er
Sorry for the misspelling. Fat fingers here.
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Good luck, Kees, this might be the one. No prob, Salty, I have been called worse. I regularly reread and correct before I post, but invariably there are two or three mistakes that I see only after posting so then I modify once or twice.
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Close don’t count…
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Yep, no see-gar for U 2day. Better luck next time.
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I hit 12:00, 9:00, 6:00
Wonder where the next one will go?
😵💫
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I'm thinking dead center.
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Another miss
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Ya know at 100 yds you're not missing by much.
It took 6-7 tries for me so keep at it.
I'm thinking I'll try again tomorrow with my smoothbore.
Good luck
Kevin
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While I was out shooting my rondy target, I took a poke at the long range target too. No success. [ Invalid Attachment ]
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[ Invalid Attachment ]
Took another poke today with ginger. Trying for 2.
She's got her left and right ok, gotta work on the ups n downs now.
Kevin
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Always a good feeling when you see a hole that close.
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No cee gar again.
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Just another reason to go shooting again. :hairy
Keep at it.
Kevin
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Haha you are correct @kdubs. I’m gonna try again this morning.
:bigsmile:
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First shot at that distance with this rifle, picked a poor day to try to shoot, windy as crud, but at least I was on the board... High and right. We'll get there!
Joe
45 cal Pennsylvania.. 45 gr 2f and prb
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Another miss.
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I tried yesterday and completely missed the target. I had it on a small backer, so I have no idea where the ball actually hit. Got a great big cardboard backer for the next time so I know where she is hitting. The wind was a crosswind, so I am sure that entered into the cause of the miss. :bigsmile:
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Well here's another one for the loss column. Salty and I are trying to chalk one up for the 45's. After trying the long one, I fired a few at another target at 25 yds. Didn't do well, so decided I was having a bad hair day. Packed my stuff up and headed for home. Then on my way home, a mama turkey and 4 peeps decided to try to cross the road in front of me. It was a very close call, but I believe everybody escaped without injury. And I have decided, I'm NOT buying any lottery tickets.
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[ Invalid Attachment ]
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My apologies to Nessmuk. I knew he had hit the revolutionary sized target, but forgot what caliber he used. So Salty, we're off the hook.
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Looks like No Powder and I are shooting the same target, same rifle, same impact.
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I didn't take a picture of the target today, suffice to say that it is still unviolated! :lol sign
However, think of the exercise we get. 1/4 mile is 440 yards. Walking 100 yards to post the target, 100 yards back to the shooting station, 100 yards to retrieve the target and another 100 yards return to the bench is 400 yards. Throw in 20 yards from the vehicle to the bench and another back to the vehicle and we have walked that 1/4 mile! If you're shooting the 25 yard targets also you can undoubtedly add 50 yards more....
~Kees~
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Yep all that walking, I'll be in a bikini in no time :luff:
Kevin
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Hey Don!!
What do you think of 50 yard Revolutionary Challenge with a PISTOL!!
I've tried it with my .50 cal Flintlock pistol and IT AIN'T EASY!
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Hey Kevin. Surely they have rules at the range where you shoot, about the bikini thing, don't they?
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Hey Don!!
What do you think of 50 yard Revolutionary Challenge with a PISTOL!!
I've tried it with my .50 cal Flintlock pistol and IT AIN'T EASY!
Rifle, musket, pistol, slingshot, or rock throwing all = the same amount of challenge for me. And that's with or without a bikini.
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Would it be PC and HC if, when using a pistol to try the Revolutionary Challenge, the shooter wore a coonskin cap along with a Borat mankini? Asking for a friend.
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Really? I'd like to know what that rule might be. ;) ;)
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Try, try, again…
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Join the crowd Salty. [ Invalid Attachment ] Patience is wearing thin.
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Another try today but… getting closer
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I'm feeling a new member of the regimen coming on.
You're so close don't give up.
Kevin
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SAL-TY!! SAL-TY!! SAL-TY!! YOU CAN DO IT!!!!!
:hairy
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Going to try again tomorrow.
Thanks for the encouragement fellas.
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Storm missed us completely so I went out today but
Another swing and a miss…
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I kind of wish I had kept the same target on the same backer so I could refer back to what previous shots have been. But I didn't, so it's a moot point.
~Kees~
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Based on my backer, I’m not sure it’s helping my new shots. If/when I hit it will be pure luck.
😵💫
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I can't agree with you, Salty. If and when you hit it the result will have been due to a combo of persistence and skill. That target is a real mind blower for even the most seasoned and experienced shooters. Every time you, me (although I haven't tried in quite a while), or anyone else tries it and comes up short it merely shows how much superior those 1770's Revolutionary shooters were to us. Those guys were light years better. Imagine you're about 17, you say "Yeah, I'll try that, I think I can hit it, and I want one of those snazzy RWB uniforms." Then you step up, take that one cold bore shot and voila, your get the uniform! Incredible. Good luck.
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On another forum (TMF) under Flintlock Rifle there is a very interesting discussion, Long Range Shooting, about that topic at distances like what we are mimicking in our scaled down version of Morgan's challenge. There are some tips that could be helpful for those who are still trying to "jine da boyz". ;banghead;
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Another swing and a miss…
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Waiting for an official ruling…
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Well, I don't know if there is anyone who is "official", but it looks to me like it kissed the shingle ever so gently. I would call it a HIT. What really matters, though, is how do you feel about it? Applause, kudos, the admiration of countless women, and riches beyond your imagination await your decision! So . . . ?
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Thanks for the affirmation. I really felt it missed. But no powder convinced me to enter it. But I would like to qualify with a hit at least halfway into the black. Can we give it an asterisk*
🥴
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Personally, I wouldn't want to see your posting to the company rest in purgatory hanging by an asterisk. Since neither Capt. Morgan nor Capt. Cresap are here to call it, why not let the present group of latter-day members of the company sound off? C'mon guys, let's hear how each of you would decide.
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It's often easier to tell if you look at it from the back side.
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You're right about that Hank. If that 45 would have growed up to be a 50, there wouldn't be any doubt about it. I tried to convince Salty it was a hit, and Salty tried to convince me it was a miss. What a predicament. I still vote HIT.
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Welcome to the ranks :yessir:
Kevin
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It's a HIT to me, Salty!! Welcome to the ranks!!
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Well, Salty, the guys in the company all agree that you are worth your salt! Although I'm just a TDY clerk assigned to do the company paperwork, I agree, too. So let's have a round of applause for the new guy, Specialist E-4, Salty. His specialty is perseverance, and his shooting is straight. Huzzah! :hairy :bow. Spec-4 Salty, pm your mailing address to me so you can receive your well earned Alex Hamilton "certificate" that can be turned into liquid Sam Adams Revolutionary elixir. :toast Congratulations from the Captains.
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Thank you all and miner’49er.
I would like to add another Hamilton into the pot for the next shooter to hit the target.
Total 20 bucks.
Let’s get some more entries coming in.
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Well done, Salty! :yessir: Off hand at 100 yards with open sights? That is nothing to sneeze at.
~Kees~
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Thank you Winter Hawk.
Gonna keep shooting to get one completely inside the black though.
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I have no idea how times I've tried, but this was today's attempt. I no longer believe, practice makes perfect. So if I ever say that on this forum, disregard it. How about the rest of you guys?🤔 [ Invalid Attachment ]
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Reminds me of a fellow I used to shoot with. We had a friendly competitive nature built up and we typically tried to shoot right next to each other.
Say I was shooting silhouettes and I missed a turkey (which was often). He would say, "Oh John, you missed but it was only by this much." And he would hold up his thumb and forefinger held about 1/4" apart. Then we would both laugh.
So, Oh Tom, you missed, but it was only by this much. :lol sign
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Salty, it appears to me that if that were a Redcoat you were shooting at, the damage, if there really was any, could be repaired by the battalion taylor. I doubt if your fine English friend would have even noticed it until he took off his coat, if then.
But since this is a cut the line scoring process, I guess it's a hit. So, congratulations. You sure did work for it.
Sorry, but I just don't like that rule, never have and never will. But since I don't shoot much, if any, anymore, my voice sure don't matter.
John (Bigsmoke)
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I’m gonna keep shooting that target until I get one completely within the black.
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Thank you Miner’49er for the reward. Photo below. Gonna stay on my workbench until next guy hits the black. And I’ll add another Hamilton.
Tried the long range today but not even close enough to post.
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My pleasure, Salty, you certainly earned it. I appreciate your reply and the photo, too. :bl th up
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Hey y’all,
I finally clearly hit the black!
My 21st shot!
I’m gonna keep making it my first shot of the day until I can’t miss it.
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yea man.
now all ya gotta do is repeat that same sequence every time. :hairy
good for you friend!
kevin
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Well done. Congrats. :toast :applaud
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:bl th up :bl th up Two thumbs up. You just doubled your money, I think? Maybe? Maybe not? Uh uh? Anyway, you really plugged it!
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GREAT JOB, SALTY!! Perseverance pays off!
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I’m still holding two Hamilton for the next shooter.
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I decided to change my stance. Eyes closed.
Just kiddin. 🤣
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Whatever you did, don't change a thing. Congratulations buddy. :applaud
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70 grn 2f through my drop tube no wad no patch. Lubed Lee REAL bullet. Closed my eyes.
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Hey Salty, neat hearing you were using a drop tube to load with.
I used to make a lot of those for BPCR shooters to load their brass with, but never did make one for muzzleloaders, although we did offer them in our catalog.
Wish I still had a metal lathe, I would probably still make some. Just thinking it would be fun to see if I could turn the tip of the tube into the funnel top instead of soldering a brass funnel onto it?
John
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I used some copper refrigeration tubing and attached a small brass funnel with epoxy. I think it helps.
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Here's what happened today. First time to put the whole ball in. And Salty, you better not send me a picture of Hamilton. [ Invalid Attachment ]
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OUTSTANDING!!!
You and I are shooting the same trajectory. That’s where I hit too.
You qualify for the two Hamiltons!!
😀😀🎯
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No powder hit the target and qualified for the two Hamiltons. But he asked for it to be donated to St Jude’s Children's Hospital which I completed today.
Thank you No Powder.
Very generous and thoughtful.
In the spirit that The Miner ‘49er and No Powder started I am offering to donate another Hamilton to StJudes in the name of the next shooter that hits the black.
Good luck you all.
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[ Invalid Attachment ]
Took my first try in a while.
St Jude's will have to wait.
Kevin
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Have you been using the Kibler, or the TC Hawken? I can't remember your Kiblers name.
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I think I need a name for my Hawken.
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First you have to determine if its a boy or a girl. Good luck with that.
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Ginger is my kibler , she's a redhead ( cherry stock)
That's what I used for these targets.
I took my no name TC ( rusty comes to mind) to our club shoot a week back, took 3 rd place outta 12 shooters .
Kevin
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I'll take 3rd place out of 12 any day of the week.
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My “Thunderstick” presented me with a surprise this morning. Closing my eyes during the shot seems to work.
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Impressive!
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Thanks Nessmuk.
Notice all the missed shots though.
Took a lotta powder to get there.
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Well Salty, I just might try your method next time and close my eyes too. Good shooting buddy.
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Today's attempt. And take a good look at that ball laying on the target. If you're wondering if that is a hole from a ball puller, the answer is yes. No Powder did it again. [ Invalid Attachment ] ;banghead;
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It seems as though Salty and I are the only two members making posts about this target. I was just wondering if anyone else is even trying to hit this target anymore. I like to shoot a fouling shot before shooting for score, so as long as I'm at the range, I'll be taking a poke at that postage stamp.
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It seems as though Salty and I are the only two members making posts about this target. I was just wondering if anyone else is even trying to hit this target anymore. I like to shoot a fouling shot before shooting for score, so as long as I'm at the range, I'll be taking a poke at that postage stamp.
That's about what I do, but when it doesn't even show on the paper or cardboard I don't bother reporting it. And with not getting out last month it's been a while since I tried! ::)
~Kees~
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After seeing Mark used a 32 cal. on his snakes alive target, I decided to do the same thing. So I attempted the Revolutionary sized target also. Never tried it with the 32, and didn't think I would even be close. But I got surprised. Even though it's not a hit, it's closer than I expected it to be. But don't worry, I won't be shooting at limb bacon when they're that far away. I like to think I'm an ethical hunter. [ Invalid Attachment ] . I made a mistake on my info. I used 30 grains of FFFG Goex.
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Tom, You need to figure out how to make those shots meet in the middle. ;banghead;
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I think Tom was “leading” the getaway.
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John, I like your way of thinking. I think I'll get the easel and protractor out and see what I can come up with.
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DRUM ROLL, PLEASE....
Today's attempt with a Lee R.E.A.L. bullet over 70 grains of Goex FFg, the first time I have shot that bullet out of this rifle.
[ Invalid Attachment ]
Going back to round ball....
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Kees, I've never shot anything out of my flintlocks, so I don't have to go back to round ball. I like them and will continue using them. They seem to work for me.
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I can sympathize. I tried the REAL on the 100. Came to same conclusion. Back to LRB and 70 gn 2f. Hope you hit it sooner than it did me. 21 st shot finally hit. Gonna keep shooting it until I can’t miss.
My secret is eyes closed. 😝 No skill. Just luck.
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Missed the Rev target so bad today I’m embarrassed to post the photo.
😵💫
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On 10/12/23 I made my 8th attempt on the mini shingle and I missed the entire backer. Today, after a year of R&R to balance my inner chakras, to meld my rifle, my trigger finger, and my mind into ONE, I made attempt #9. Where's the photo of the results, you ask? Well, let's just say there is no new hole in the shingle, the paper, or the backer, so there is nuttin to show. One more try, the big #10, is my make it or break it. When I first proposed this personal challenge and offered it to everyone, I really thought it would be doable for many good shooters. After my performance I now am further in awe of any and all shooters who ever were able to achieve this on their very first try. :Doh! :Doh! :Doh!
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My hits were PURE LUCK. It took me 21 shots to get my first hit.
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@Salty, I'm glad you stuck with it and did it regardless of the number of attempts that it took. For me, 9 failures for sure, and maybe 10 w/o a hit are all it takes to convince me that if I were to continue and finally do it that it would be due purely to luck, not skill. Captains Morgan and Cresap had their one-shot achievers but to quote Dirty Harry "a man's got to know his limitations," and I know mine. ;banghead;
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I didn't even try today. I was shooting my caplock, a CVA Bobcat which I restocked. It hadn't been shot since I did that, which was way before Covid-19 hit. I took two sighter shots from the bench and was 6" low at 25 yards so would have been plowing dirt if I tried it at 100! :lol sign
~Kees~
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At least you’re trying. Wish we could get more shooters into this.
Im still holding 20 bucks for the next shooters to hit the black.
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Swing and a miss, striiiiiike........... I forget how many it is. But I know it's more than three. [ Invalid Attachment ]
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Is anyone still trying?
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Yes!
I will be again as soon as I get my barrel back from Bobby Hoyt. Soon I hope.
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I will as well as long as I can get across the creek for the 100 yd range.
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If Clementine can beat Drachenfeuer or the new kid, Mort R, to the SUV it'll be her last chance (oh yeah, mine too). My best hope might be to fill Mort's belly with some 00 buck and give that a whirl.
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I'll try again come spring ..
Kevin
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I should try again with my Kibler SMR .40. I sold the T/C Hawken I made the first with.
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I've tried to sell my TC a couple times, always glad later that I didn't
Maybe the new revived Thompson Center will offer the hawken once more.
Kevin
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Maybe the new revived Thompson Center will offer the hawken once more.
Or, the way they were going before S&W bought them, it will probably be an inline with the Hawken name on it. :scared:
Over the last many years, I have owned quite a few T/C's. In retrospect, I have always been pi$$ed that I sold them. What was I ever thinking? In terms of original cost with the value of winnings with them, it was always a profitable deal, but darn, I really liked some of them. Especially my first Renegade. By the time I was through with it, it really didn't look like a TC, and with the 36" Douglas Premium barrel on it, it didn't really shoot like one, either. Last I heard, it went to Texas in 1984 or so. Bye bye.
John
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I still have all my TC's. Last count was 1 New Englander, 5 Hawkens and 3 Renegades and the unmentionable Fire Hawk. One of my Renegades is hardly a TC anymore either. It has two .62 barrels one rifled and one smooth. Sports a Brad Emig tuned L&R lock and a full stock curly maple replacement stock for it. One of these days I should probably put them up for sale as I am not getting any younger and have stopped hunting. :bigsmile:
Dave
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Well, I developed a powerful fondness for Longrifles especially flintlocks. I kept my T/C Hawken Flintlock ,50 and sold off the .45 and .36s. was that a mistake? I don't think so, I haven't regretted it yet. I have developed a case of Kibler-itis, though.
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Ooh kiblers. Niiicccce
Kevin
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One of my Renegades is hardly a TC anymore either. It has two .62 barrels one rifled and one smooth. Sports a Brad Emig tuned L&R lock and a full stock curly maple replacement stock for it. One of these days I should probably put them up for sale as I am not getting any younger and have stopped hunting. :bigsmile:
Dave
It’s hell getting old, ain’t it?
Perhaps when I’m a little more flush, I can relieve you of that .62 cal!
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One of my Renegades is hardly a TC anymore either. It has two .62 barrels one rifled and one smooth. Sports a Brad Emig tuned L&R lock and a full stock curly maple replacement stock for it.
One time, for chuckles and grins, we rebarreled a Renegade with a .62 cal barrel with Forsythe type rifling. It was a bit uncomfortable shooting with a 150 grain charge. Tried it with 200 grains and went home to put some ice on the bruising. That wasn't a chuckle or a grin. It just hurt.
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Well I got my re-bored barrel back from Bobby Hoyt. Bored my 45 to 50. Very happy.
Retired the old “Swiss cheese” 45 cal target and started a new clean target and backer for the 50. Shot yesterday and today with the50 and 70 gn Goex 2f, 018 patch, 488 ball.
As you can see I missed by a long shot. But I’m hitting paper so I’ll keep at it until I hit that postage stamp. Looks like a pinhead at 100 yds.
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Well, shucks, Salty, that looks like minute of elephant to me.
Of course, with a .50 PRB at 100 yards, the elephant would think it had been bit by a mosquito. :bigsmile:
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It's supposed to warm up into the 50s in the next couple of days, I may get out to the range and burn some powder. If I do, I'll have to take my obligatory shot at the postage stamp!
~Kees~
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This spring I plan on getting back in the habit of shooting my hundred yards before sessions.
I will try and get Eric, second rate marksman, to participate
Kevin
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Another swing and a miss today. But I’m not out yet. It was a foul ball.
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:hairy It's on the paper! Getting close.... :yessir:
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After going back and looking at this thread, this will be directed to dmarsh. If you're getting the snow and rain up there like we are in PA, I don't think you'll be able to cross that creek for some time. And you mentioned you had a renegade with a tuned L&R lock with a full stock. I am partial to Renegades, and I'd love to see a picture of that gun. Never saw one with full stock on it.
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Today's attempt at the Revolutionary sized target. I'm like Salty, another swing and a miss. But it was a blessing to just get outside and make some smoke. [ Invalid Attachment ]
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Youre closer than mine.
As someone else stated, my shots are 2MOE. Minutes of elephant.
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[ Invalid Attachment ]
Well today Eric and I got out and I learned him in the ways of the challenge.
I let Eric shoot first and although a gallant effort , a miss none the less ( backer board and all ) I'll let Eric fill in his shooting iron particulars.
My first attempt of the year was, as a famous dude once said " just a bit outside"
Not bad for a 30" .62 cal smooth trade gun . I'll keep at it
Tomorrow we have a club shoot and sounds like quite a few of us will be shooting smoothbore.
Should be a hoot.
Kevin
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KDubs, ya got me motivated to toss a piece of lead at it again. Thanks
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Yessir,
I'll be trying every time out, if I remember..
I think I should make a new board for 2025?
Kevin
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Yessir, I started a new target for 2025. Besides the old target had so many misses it affected my self esteem.
:bigsmile: :bigsmile:
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Darn that target looks tiny at 100 yds. Another Miss.
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You've certainly have it surrounded.
Boy that 2/3 shot was close.
Keep at it soldier :yessir:
Kevin
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Never give up
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[ Invalid Attachment ]
Well today Eric and I got out and I learned him in the ways of the challenge.
I let Eric shoot first and although a gallant effort , a miss none the less ( backer board and all ) I'll let Eric fill in his shooting iron particulars.
My first attempt of the year was, as a famous dude once said " just a bit outside"
Not bad for a 30" .62 cal smooth trade gun . I'll keep at it
Tomorrow we have a club shoot and sounds like quite a few of us will be shooting smoothbore.
Should be a hoot.
Kevin
Hey Kevin,
Thanks for the session last weeksure had a great time! I appreciate you letting me shoot first, even if my shot wasnt quite on target (backer board and all)! Im still honing my skills with the new Ken Netting smoothbore; that was only my second time out with it since a cursory test firing at 50 yards a few days prior.
I think Sundays shoot gave me some much-needed confidence with this gun. Im ready to fashion my own Morgans shingle and give it another go!
Cheers,
Eric
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Hi Second-rate Marksman. If you haven't already done so you might want to go to what started it all, my post #1 (2/13/23). It shows the target I fashioned and it includes a bit of the history of the shingle as well. It's good to see someone new is trying it. :). I have one more poke at it in me and then I'm done. It still blows me away that Morgan and Cresap could raise three companies of sharpshooters who nailed the shingle on their one and only attempt. Good luck to you!
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What's all this stuff about one more poke in me and then I'm done crap. I don't think Clementine agrees with this train of thought.
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After going back and looking at this thread, this will be directed to dmarsh. If you're getting the snow and rain up there like we are in PA, I don't think you'll be able to cross that creek for some time. And you mentioned you had a renegade with a tuned L&R lock with a full stock. I am partial to Renegades, and I'd love to see a picture of that gun. Never saw one with full stock on it.
Sorry, just noticed this. No long shots for me for a while due to the creek. Will try and get a picture of my Renegade in the next few days.
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What's all this stuff about one more poke in me and then I'm done crap. I don't think Clementine agrees with this train of thought.
Clementine has been doing her part well, but it's my part that's lacking. Dirty Harry nailed it when he said, "A man's got to know his limitations." Personally, the real challenge was to see if I had it in me to hit the shingle on the one and only first attempt, the same opportunity that was given to those Rev soldiers. Following my first try/miss I thought surely I'd get it on #2, then #3. If that had been the case I would have felt pretty good, but after 6 or 7 whiffs the luster started to fade. My last try was #9. It's pretty evident that if I were to shoot enough times I might put one in there but it would just be due to luck. My hat is off to the few here who have ever hit the shingle. You are the only guy who has come closest to achieving the one 'n done shot and that shows your typical excellent shooting. I'll keep watching to see if anyone ever does it cold bore first and only shot. Sometime this Spring Clementine and I will fling #10 downrange, so we'll see. If I had one, I'd tip my tricorn to every one of Morgan and Cresap's men and to the modern shooter who snags the shingle on #1.
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I understand Don. Thanks to you, a lot of guys have had a lot of fun with that target. Seems all I can do is surround it. Tried again today and missed. Don't think I'll even post the results.
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Im getting closer. This is a shooter problem. Not the rifle.
Shot this with my new Kibler Woodsrunner flinter 50cal 70gn 2f
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Oh Salty, is that TC Hawken ever going to be jealous. Real close, good job.
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Hi Second-rate Marksman. If you haven't already done so you might want to go to what started it all, my post #1 (2/13/23). It shows the target I fashioned and it includes a bit of the history of the shingle as well. It's good to see someone new is trying it. :). I have one more poke at it in me and then I'm done. It still blows me away that Morgan and Cresap could raise three companies of sharpshooters who nailed the shingle on their one and only attempt. Good luck to you!
Thanks for the heads-up! Ill definitely go back and check out your first post. I first learned about Morgans shingle some 15 odd years ago, back when I was working to earn my Rifleman patch with Project Appleseed. Itd be nice to have a little refresher.
It really is incredible what Morgan and Cresaps men could do under pressure, and it puts into perspective just how skilled they were. Im looking forward to giving it another go myself. Best of luck on your final attempt!
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Another miss today.
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I took another poke at it the other day when I was playing with the 54. I almost missed the whole page out of the newspaper the target was hanging on. So you're doing quite well. I think you and I are the only ones shooting at it anymore. :hairy
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Thats why I post every time I shoot it. Hoping to generate more interest. Now that the weather is improving up north maybe we will get some more shooters.
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No, you're not. I'm still trying with my .32 Flint. I'm just not posting my misses. If your curious, however, the score is 27 attempts , 0 hits. I really want to post a target with a .32 bullet hole.