Are you up to a Revolutionary sized personal challenge?

[Ohio Joe]

If possible, what I would like to see; is a "close up" of an actual "Rifleman's Rifle" & its Front & Rear Sights from that time period.

I'd think that their front sight would have had to be very low to the barrel & just fine enough to draw a 200 yards bead. That would be some interesting viewing to compared our sight arrangement to their sight arrangement... And one could no doubt build off that - for 200 yard shooting...

Of course, knowing your chosen Rifle's likes and dislikes - are everything. 

[Nessmuk]

So this morning I went to my range to do my normal Wednesday practice. I brought three .36 Cal caplock rifles and The '49er's postage stamp target. My understanding of the challenge is 100yds. offhand, postage stamp target and a cold bore. I fired one shot each. Results? Let's just say I don't have to print another target for next time, the one I have is just fine.

[No Powder]

Would I be too nosey if I were to ask if you were close. I only had five targets printed. That should last me about 10 to 20 years.

[Ohio Joe]

Nessmuk, when you said "postage Stamp target" / now that put it into prospective for sure... I guess I'll just wobble around until my front sight covers the stamp / pull the trigger / and hope for the best... 

[The Miner '49er]

What happened, Nessmuk, did all three rifles have bent barrels? In your hands, after the assault, that target should have looked like a piece of Swiss cheese. Well you DO get extra credits for helping the environment by not causing another tree to give its life to become a target.  Reality check - I haven't tried it yet but I expect identical results.

[Nessmuk]

Nope, it's not nosey at all. the target paper was 8.5 x  11 inches, the target holder was 24 x 24 inches, I hit cardboard twice, one high, one right and high. The third out of my 20" barreled Canoe gun, hit the berm. I'll try with my three .45s next time. The law of averages is on my side.

 

[No Powder]

Considering the firearm you were using, you did a mighty fine job. I wouldn't have wanted to be standing where your target was hanging. As much as I hate cleaning muzzleloaders, I can't imagine having to clean 3 of them. My hats off to you. I'm not looking forward to those 2 extra trips down to the 100yd. backstop, but I had to make an extra trip downrange the other day to pull my ramrod out of the ground, so I better not complain.

[Ohio Joe]

Our club, the old "White River Brigade" (our local Range Traditional ML Chapter) - we use to shoot at a 17" round gong from 200 yards and it was very hit-'able... I also read where Morgan's men put on shooting displays using the 5x7 inch shingle from 60 yards... I also read where (from what I gathered) a Company of Riflemen would "flock" shoot at a group of 5 x 7 inch shingles from 200 yards;

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/morgans-sharpshooters-revolutionary-war/457069

So I do wonder if that 60 yards at a 5x7 shingle may have grown into a "propaganda of the time" - that every man being able to hit a 5x7 shingle from 200 yards / as the reality of the 60 yards was demonstrated "first" by a Company of Riflemen, and later the entire Company would shoot a couple volley's at the 5 x7 inch shingles from 200 yards??? I don't know / just throwing out some speculation, which is great propaganda???

However, this I do know for a fact; It is not one bit hard at all to hit a 17 inch round gong offhand from 200 yards (which is just about the average sized man's shoulder width...

Remember / propaganda goes all the way back to the "organization" of civilization / and it comes in very handy against one's enemies / especially if your enemies are carrying muskets -vs- Long Rifles that can mark out to 200 yards...

I'll also mention / note; that IMHO - a 17" gong really doesn't look that small at all / but a target (basically the size of playing card at 100 yards) does.

Just some prospective on 200 yard shooting. It's a subject that can be discussed quite a bit.

(And, truth be know - (most of us old-timers) by now, have probably sent more shots (by far) down Range then our Ancestors ever did...

 


 

 

[The Miner '49er]

Joe, you brought up some great food for thought. The 17" gong at 200 is 227 sq inches. I have never shot a ml at more than 100, at an 8 1/2x11 (93 sq") target, but it seems reasonable that it is doable - twice the distance and a bit more than twice the size. The article mentions shooting at a Colonial dollar sized bullseye (1 1/2") at 60. That's about 1.75 sq". The 5x7 board at 250 is 35 sq". The 7x10 shingle that I mentioned is, of course, 70 sq", shot at, supposedly, from 250 yards. The 100 yard "postage stamp" target is about 12 sq". What all this number slinging means to me is that it's all pretty much equivalent in difficulty. Your "propaganda" mention also makes a lot of sense. Every time I tell the story of my boar 🐗  hunt last year, he seems to get bigger by about 50 pounds and the distance increases by about 10 yards. I'm really beginning to impress myself! Anyone wanting to read more about Morgan, get a copy of Daniel Morgan  Revolutionary Rifleman by Don Higginbotham. Good luck to all of us who tackle the postage stamp.

[No Powder]

In your reading, did it ever mention whether Mr. Morgan himself could hit this 250 yd. target?

[The Miner '49er]

Sorry, but no. There isn't a lot in the book about his recruiting men for his two companies, but he was a heck of a guy. His finest hour was the battle of Cowpens, SC. It's impressive to tour that battlefield, look at the lay of the land, and imagine yourself there. He was the kind of leader you'd follow to hell and back.

[Ohio Joe]

Some Patched Ball perspective here;

Sea Level / .45 caliber Patched Ball / 1800 fps
Well within aiming at the top of a "Redcoats" head and ball dropping into his groin or legs / or just aim high off the top of his hat / head...

Yds..Vel....Energy...Drop...Drift....TOF(sec)

0      1800   983     -0.5    0.0     0.000
50     1233   462     3.3     0.0     0.101
75     1074   350     2.8     0.0     0.167
100    982    293     0.0     0.0     0.240 *100 Yd Zero*
125    906    249     -5.6    0.0     0.319
150    841    215     -14.7   0.0     0.405
175    781    185     -28.0   0.0     0.498
200    724    159     -46.3   0.0     0.598


Here's a link to calculate your Ballistics;

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/rbballistics/web_apps/rb_ballistics.html

[LongWalker]

If possible, what I would like to see; is a "close up" of an actual "Rifleman's Rifle" & its Front & Rear Sights from that time period.

I'd think that their front sight would have had to be very low to the barrel & just fine enough to draw a 200 yards bead. That would be some interesting viewing to compared our sight arrangement to their sight arrangement... And one could no doubt build off that - for 200 yard shooting...

Of course, knowing your chosen Rifle's likes and dislikes - are everything. 

FWIW, the original Dickert I shot out to 400 yards had a front site that measured about .119" in height, and .021" at the thickest (base), tapering smaller towards the muzzle.  The rear sight was roughly 9" from the breech, about .240" in height, and had a notch that looked like a knife-nick.  The sights on a Kibler Colonial are very similar (though the Dickert had a silver front blade).  To aim the Dickert at 200 yards I had to hold the top of the blade over the top of the rear sight. 

[Ohio Joe]

That's just about what I was a thinking it would be (there about) in that neighborhood! 

Kind 'a like "Sight Base Aiming" LongWalker?
 

[The Miner '49er]

A bit more about the shooting ability of the men who Morgan sought. In a letter, one of Morgan's contemporaries, Richard Henry Lee, said that they displayed remarkable dexterity and that in shooting contests they desired targets at least 200 yards distant and no larger than an orange. Whatever the truth was, they sure knew how to use those "curious muskets" that weren't the usual smooth bores.