Views on the 40 caliber

[mark davidson]

Mitch, In all honesty, no offense intended. I have no reason to doubt your ability nor would that be very nice of me to do so. Sincere congrat's on the ability level that you have developed. That will give me a bar to strive for. I missed a whole deer at about 100 yards last weekend; got in a hurry I guess in a narrow sight window and shot over him likely cause I did not focus enough and get the front sight pulled down and nestled in the notch low enough. At least it was a clean miss over the back. It was only my second miss in about two dozen kills but it still chapped my butt that I missed.

[Captchee]

mark  do you know how big a  whistle pig head is ?
 Much smaller the a prairie dog.
A big one Might be  total body size ,  ½ the size of a mule deer head  .but on average about the size of a dollar bill
 Their heads might be as big as a 50 cent piece .
 Yet sometimes that all you get a shot at ,.
Around here in the spring the things are  everywhere  . People build rifles  for no other purpose then shooting whistle pigs
 100 yards is might far for those little fellas . Most time its 25  to 50 yards .
 But we do have a place over in vale we go to where we set up  with out muzzleloaders on top of a limestone 75 ft bluff  and shoot down into the  area bellow .
 It doesn’t look that far. Myself I never though about how far we were shooting .
Last fall a fella came out with a  bench set up and  cartridge gun  that he built just for whistle pig shooting . He lasered some of the shots fellas were making .
 I myself was  greatly surprised

 But it all depends on what you used to shooting at and how often you shoot .
 One of the things we shoot a lot of here is paper towel  tubes  with little quarter size  orange dots on them . Its great fun . We shoot at them both rested and off hand
 Try it some time .
 When I tell you that  there are guys that can with open iron sights  consistently hit the mark , im not exaggerating at all .
 Myself I can hit the Tube  at 50  consistently  but I have a hard time  hitting that dang little dot .
 But little Mark .  That dog gone guy  can hit that  dot  out so far my entier sight  covers the tube .
 In fact here is a story for you that can be substantiated by TMA member False ears or Erwin warden . Some of the folks here know both these folks  .
  A bunch of us got together one Saturday  and was shooting  grass  clumps  on a  sand  hill side some 250 yards out .
 Erwin gets this bright idea  of  anteing up 75 bucks   for a starting pot . Then charging  5 bucks  for 3 shots  for this event .

 Now mind you we have a big  clear hill   that’s probably a good 800ft  as a back stop .
 The  even was to  shoot clays  with  out rifles . The person hitting a flying clay  got the pot .
 Little mark steps up and say Ill take that money  if you want to lose it .
  Some of us were like  ahhhya right . Then his brother inlaw stepped up and advise against  putting any money down  if little mark was going to shoot . That started an argument  of course .
 But to make a long story short we did end up  shooting clays just to prove the point .

When ,Little Mark , shooting a 45 cal CVA Kentucky  popped  his first clay  out of the air . I call BS luck .
 When he then proceded to  knock down 3 more , one right out of the other . I went back  put my rifle away and  had a beer .
  I have seen that man  pop clays  consistently  when  placed  clear out there on that very sand hillside ,. Off hand , with that CVA rifle
 You want to know the real rubb for me about it . The bugger hardly ever shoots . I kid you not . Most times  he is working his cows .
 We see him most times  we only see him just before hunting season .
Damdest shooter I have ever seen .
 When he comes around . I put my money as deep into my pockets  as I can .

 There is another fella  that the same folks I listed above  can test to watching  stand toe to toe against a  trap club champion shooting a  very high end Benelli  .
  The guy opened his mouth one to many times about how in effective BP guns were  while watching  our annual  trap shoot .
 They went toe to toe  and ended clear off the trap course and out in the parking lot  while we all stood back and watched .
 The end result , the guy with the benelli  was sitting down and  proclaiming  how he though he could get  out of the range of the BP gun .
 It did not happen .
Again  this can be attested to by  people on this board who were there  , and like myself watched .

[mark davidson]

Cap, Thanks again for another cool anecdote and for opening my narrow minded and inexperienced eyes to the possibilities and capabilities of good shooters. I have simply not had any exposure to that kind of shooting with black powder guns. I have quite a reputation as a shooter with a few titles and trophies to show for it but I have just not seen yet or been exposed to what these black powder guns can do. I really struggle with my flinter off hand or in the unsupported standing position. Sitting or kneeling or propping on a tree I can confidently take about any reasonable shot at deer and feel good about my ethical choice. But, a paper towel roll or a quarter size dot off-hand is admittedly just way outside my skill level at this point. Now that I know what some folks are capable of though, I bet I will be burning some powder trying to get at least in the ball park with such shooters as you describe. It may take years but Lord willing, I reckon I got some time. :-)  Thanks again for the story!

[Riley/MN]

... Now that I know what some folks are capable of though, I bet I will be burning some powder trying to get at least in the ball park with such shooters as you describe...

[Captchee]

[Mitch]

sorry I don't have any headless prairie dog pics....my pitbull usually pees on'em and buries'em...Mark-no offense taken amigo, as you may have noticed, I'm a bit blunt and I love to disprove "rumors and speculations" with muzzleloaders!

[Kermit]

Love those tubes. I'm going to start saving 'em.

A couple of friends and I started shooting at crackers a few years back. Crows do the cleanup. Started as a rimfire game, but moved to other things, including frontstuffers for me--they didn't own one.

Hint--saltines are cheaper and easier to see at 75-100 yards than Ritz.

We called it "sporting crackers."

[Loyalist Dave]

GOOD GOSH MAN!  I HAVE BEEN THROWING TUBES AWAY FOR DECADES!   :notworthy

Oh yeah, BTW, folks out east build special rifles, and then spend money to go out to ID, SD, And ND and shoot PD's and WP's.  It's like an obsession with them.  Not that I am using obsession in a bad way...,

LD

[flintlock62]

Mark Davidson.  There are a lot of good shots out there.  I have won a couple of local competitions and thought I was a fair shot, but if you want to see some shooters, go to the Championship match at Frienship.

[Captchee]

GOOD GOSH MAN!  I HAVE BEEN THROWING TUBES AWAY FOR DECADES!   :notworthy

Oh yeah, BTW, folks out east build special rifles, and then spend money to go out to ID, SD, And ND and shoot PD's and WP's.  It's like an obsession with them.  Not that I am using obsession in a bad way...,

LD

 you want a real challenge , save the Toilet paper tubes  

yep kermit  crackers are fun . so are chrcoal brickets and  golf balls
ever done that  in the winter ?

 in January when it get real cold and the snow builds a  hard crust , we shoot a round of golf .

we  use the  bright orange balls . you get 3 shots  and you have to shoot where it lays .
 we line the balls all up at 15 yards. .
 1 shot you hit will send the ball flying  normally another 25-30 yards .
 then you shoot where it lays . for good or bad thats your shot .
 the person with the ball farthest from the start line after 3 shots  wins .



 Naa folks , really IMO a caliber  is only as good as the person shooting it .

 The hart and lungs are a pretty darn big target . Yet  its amazing how many cant seem to hit even that . Not just with a muzzleloader either

 Small caliber rifles have been more the adequate for   who knows how long .  They will continue to be so . With the price of lead and powder these days , they may just become  even more adequate

[mark davidson]

Distance??? Now how far are you good shots hitting a paper towel roll or a saltine cracker?? 25 yards, 50 yards, .......?  What can the really good shooters hit at 100 yards? Are all shots free standing off-hand or are they supported somehow?

[Captchee]

25 and 50 mark . both off hand and benched . though most all of my shooting is off hand
 the above are off hand @50 .
 the only reason i have the above photos is that it was the best  shooting i have done off hand in along time

crackers we shoot normal at 25 or more.

 the thing is thos that when we are shooting where we dont have longer ranges , we go to smaller targets .
 ever try splitting a playing card , off hand at 15 yards ?

we also always shoot tiebreaker  these can be from 10 to  20 yards  and normaly 3x5 cards . always off hand

 here is one of mine from a couple months back .


  take this past Saturday .
 our local club shot a steel trail  20 shots
 those targets   range from 10 yards to 150 yards , all off hand

 the smallest target is at  10 yards and is  no bigger the a quarter .  its worth 3 points .
 now this is part of what’s called a triple teaser . So there  are 3 targets .  One about the size of a grapefruit , woth 1 point .  A second about the size of a tennis ball   worth 2 points  and then the little 3 pointer .
 You call your shot .
 If your going to be anywhere in the top 5 places , you better hit the little  3 pointer .
 We also shoot chains at 15-30  yards . Just a simple  tier chain , hung from a limb . You only get 1 point for those

 Now our 150 yard target is 2x2 steel .  Also only 1 point . We do have one target that at 250 yards and that’s a large oxygen cylinder . Also shot off hand .

 Now after shooting that  when you come down the trail you shoot your tiebreaker .
 Last weekend we also had to shoot the  very top 3/8 of an inch ball from a n old cloths pin
1 point for the cloths pin and 1 point for cutting skull on the elk . Cutting horns does not count .
 Then we turned around and shot  at a target  that was at about 20 yards . But it had a twist .  The target was on the back side of a wood cable spool .  You not only had to hit the target but could not cut wood . So you had to thread your ball through the 3 inch hole  to the clangor .

 Then we turned around and shot 4 shot at a 8X10  sheet of paper with 3 apples  that were about 2x2 , also at 25 yards

 Toal there was a possible of  30 points .
 I came off the trail with  27 and was in 5th place .
 But I made up for it on the hawk and knife and  ended up in first  wit 37 out of 44 possible .

 Now sometimes , we  shoot PEEPS that’s right those little marshmallow Easter peeps,.
 We stick them on the limbs of bushes and shoot then at 25-30 yards

As I said , when out ranges are short , our targets are very small .
 Try it some time . See how easy it is to split a playing card at 15 yards . By bets was 5 cards in 5 shots and I lost to a fella who shot 7 cards in 7 shots .
 The point is  , if your don’t have the range to practice for distance , then make you targets real small . It will teach you to  control your sight and  pick one small spot , not the whole target .
 thats where paper shooter often fail on the trail . without a defined place to shoot , they just shoot at the whole target .

 It will also teach you  how to control your sights for when you have those longer shots that the front sight  either almost or completely  covers . You will be surprised

[Captchee]

OHHH i forgot , we also shoot straws ,matches and tacks  at 10-20 yards .
 we also shoot those little steelhead corks  tied on mono line  at 25 yards .  usualy there are 9 of those  and you have to shoot the bottom one and work up . you cat the group down and you only get scored for the  ones you hit prior .
 its not uncommon to find that you actualy have cut the fishing line  with a ball , yet never hit the cork . :lol:

[Kermit]

Necco wafers. I forgot those. My cousin and I used to shoot those with Grandad's ol' Remington .22. We'd keep moving back until someone missed. Usually made it to somewhere between 20 and 30 yards. Gramps was a good teacher, and a better shot.

[mark davidson]

Thanks for the info.  COOL! I am in the middle of hunting season right now but soon as that ends, I will play with the games and distances you mentioned. I can tell that I have a long way to go. :-) I am wearing the deer out down here but our deer are much bigger than a wafer or a playing card so I know I got a lot to learn!!! :-)