best kit for the money

[rickevans]

It seems fellas, that we disagree mostly on what the thread author means by "best kit".

Keep up the debate, but let's not get Capchee's BP up any higher. Civil and honest opinions. I love this site.

[tg]

Well the only builds I have made were from Track parts sets, I do have a Chambers early Virginia that I bought used and redid to take the stock down where it should be, every knowledgable longtime builder I have talked to recomends the Chambers, and I have checked on the PC value of the Chambers sets and they are as close as any,better than most but then with only 10 years or so of research on ML's and only having built guns from TOW parts which are likely the same parts you could buy from Tipp, who I have heard also has good parts sets, I am not qualified to speak on the authenticity of ML replicas and am not a gun builder, so I bow to your greater knowledge and experience on all things Mr. Crow, and do not bother with the ignore as I sure as Hell am not posting here again,as it is way beyond my  scope of understanding and ability to participate and offer anything of value.

[Old Salt]

shademtman,

I built a Lyman GPR from a kit.  That was my first foray into building.  

The truth is that a person with little or no skill could ruin a Lyman GPR kit as easy as they could ruin a Chambers kit.  And regarding Lyman, one GPR kit might have a different set of problems to deal with than another.  

I know a guy who has IMHO ruined two TVM kits but he is as proud of those rifle as if they were custom guns.  

I know another two guys who struggled to complete Chambers kits but they are both equally proud of their guns.

I know a fourth guy who is a genius with tools and he makes Chambers kits look like the best custom guns available.  I am sure  he could do the same with any other kit on the market.

Look at all the suppliers and you will see the same barrel makers names, the same lock makers names, the same trigger makers names, the same basic stock patterns and wood grade selections.  Some of these guys probably sell parts to one another.  

Find the combination that you really like and buy it from the supplier who meets your needs.  

PS Check out Brad Ehmig (Sp?) of Cabin Creek Muzzleloaders while you are looking.  Small selection but very good stuff at the going rate.  

Salt

[flintlock62]

As for rifles in general, I have only used TOTW kits. IMHO, I believe you can't go wrong with one.  As for Hawken style rifles, the only other kit I have put together was the original Hawkens kit.  I am no master builder, but I see many kit suppliers using the same locks, triggers, etc., as Old Salt said.

For those of us who do not have a complete machine/work shop, TOTW offers gunsmithing services.  Another service they offer is excellent customer support.

[shademtman]

Wow!!!  didn't want to start a third world war , over this....lol....I'm kidding...i'm kidding!!!!.......soooo..... mabye better clarify things a bit....1st.... "best kit for the money" ....meaning quality wise..... lock, stock, and barrel.....i use my guns for hunting.....not looking....but nothing wrong with a good looking rifle, cause i'm gonna have to look at it, while i'm hunting.....It does not have to be 100% historically accurate, i don't go to reanactment's , although it looks like fun...... as far as experienced....I'm not as experienced in building muzzleloaders as some would be on here..... I am a building contractor by trade..... i have a better than average knowledge of wood.... i have built 2 muzzleloaders from kits both cheap traditions kits.... i have built one muzzleloader from scratch from a stock blank and i have built a half dozen centerfire bolt action rifles, using 98 mauser actions, and a stock blank, do my own saftey work bend the bolt....ect....ect... have also built numerous recurve and longbows....so i'm sort of ok when it comes to building things... and can usually end up with fairly good job......alway's looking to learn more....not intrested in buying a rifle already put together.....i like tinkering with stuff. I just feel ....... there is cheap..(and that's just what you get).....and then there's ...cost a little more but well worth the price, quality wise.........thats what i'm looking for....
  thanks

[shademtman]

I should also say...i agree with whoever mentioned on here that...one person might be able to take a so...so rifle  and make it look like something.....one of the kits i put together, i doctored up the stock did a little carving ect....iv'e had people say WOW!  that is a really nice muzzleloader!!....but most didn't really know what they were looking at...cheap lock ect...that is why i mentioned a lyman.....if the quality's good.....i'd probably tinker with it and do something different...    thanks

[Gambia]

Captchee:I certainly do not want to break the rules or be offensive more than I usually am and I sincerely apologize for my post.I am interested in this thread but my puzzlement as stated is genuine.

[Gordon H.Kemp]

Just wondering?
     Whats the situation with the parts/kits from TOW?

[tg]

Hey!... smells better here allready, I have used three parts sets from TOW and the only thing I ran into was a part was not available at the time I ordered but I got it before it halted the project, I have heard others mention this as well, FWIW TOW is about the only place that sells a parts set that will give you a good solid replica of the French Cows foot stocked guns typically called "Tulles" but not being a gunbuilder or knowing anything about PC/HC I could be mistaken :lol:

[IronDawg]

Shade,

I'm a carpenter by trade and have built several several bows and a few centerfires as well. But do not have much experience at all in muzzleloader kits I have a lyman I put together from a kit (the only one I've put together from a kit). There's a certain bit of tinkering you can do with it but not much.

Mind you it is one extremely fine shooting rifle and veeery accurate. But there's not much doctoring you can do with it. most of the woods hogged off where needs to be and finish scraping is about all thats left.

You can add patina, mess with some metal finishes and maybe do a small scribe or relief here or there on the stock, but in all honesty if you were just wanting a no frills rifle?? someone of your skill set and hand knowledge could literally put the gun together on a saturday, seal the wood,  and shoot it on a sunday.

I guess what I'm saying is you can do a bit of doctoring and fancying. but ya aint got much room for it because, like the traditions kits, the gun is so close to being finished.

You'll find yourself scratching your head thining, "What can I do to set this plains rifle apart from other lymans??"

From reading your posts, It sounds like you're more or less ready to tackle something like a sitting fox or TVM kit.

[shademtman]

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I"M TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!!.......some time ago i bought a little traditions buckskinner flintlock slightly used, for next to nothing.....i never really messed with it much, as i usually hunt with either a traditions hawken i made from a kit... or most of the time the kentucky i made from scratch.....but this year got the little buckskinner out and got it shooting good though it had a few problems....1. it busted up the flints...to much mainspring strength i suppose...changed the flint around....moved it back a bit...it also has a hard trigger pull...which can be adjusted with the spring somewhat....but i also noticed sometimes it didn't want to catch on full cock....i tinkered with it a bit loosened the screws for the lock just a tad, and had it firing every time.....Today i went hunting, sat up on the mountain most of the day, came down from hunting and went to touch it off to unload ...and....you guessed it.....wouldn't stay on full cock.....i had just spent hours sitting with a rifle that i probably would not have been able to shoot had i seen a nice deer....talk about riffed!!!!....i was burnt!!!.....i don't want another piece of junk..... although i have never had any problems with either of my other tradition rifles....one is a caplock kentucky...the other a flint hawken both were kits.... the kentucky i built from scratch, i got the lock off of a flintlock, that had been seriously abused....i don't think he ever cleaned it... but the lock was alright after some cleaning....used a getz barrel and a piece of maple,  ....there is a big difference between that rifle.... and the three traditions......quality is what i want on the next one.

[flintlock62]

Shademtman

That's why I personnaly recomend TOTW.  They use top quality parts in their kits.  Right now, there is a problem with Green Mountain barrel availability.  Green Mountan is in the middle of a big gov't contract.  No problem though, just substitute a Colerain barrel instead.  I like their round bottom rifling anyway.  Balls seat easier, and cleaning is quicker, and their darned accurate to boot.

[flintlock62]

I forgot to mention Tip Curtis.  He lives down the road just a piece from me.  He has a nice shop of which I'm envious!

[Old Salt]

I forgot to mention Tip Curtis.  He lives down the road just a piece from me.  He has a nice shop of which I'm envious!

     

Shademtman,

I think you got your monies worth on this thread.  

Are you closer to making a decision?  Have you picked a style say Southern Mt, Early Lancaster?  What about caliber or barrel length?  Do you want the best wood available?  Does brass hardware appeal to you more than iron?  How close will you stick to a particular school of rifle building or will you allow some variation?      

Judging from your account of experience I image you to be quite capable of completing the majority of options available to you.

When you narrow down your choices one or two dealers will most likely stand out as being able to meet your needs.

It's been a pleasure,

Salt

[shademtman]

i think i'll probably go with the 42" barrel....i do like the lancaster style rifles....although  i am somewhat partial to the iron hardware look....i think most lancaster style rifles featured somewhat elaborate patchboxes...didn't they?...also the lancaster has a straighter stock  (less drop) than say a tennessee or bedford ect... it would be nice to be able to shoot both styles and see which is more comforatable to shoot.. i'm an average sized man 5'10" 180 pounds...doubtful that that will happen....though. I will go with a 50 cal...although a 54 might be a tad lighter with the same size barrel...as far as wood....either plain maple or cherry...would be intrested in the pro's and cons of a rifle with say 23/4" of drop as compared to say 4"