Traditions Pennsylvania flintlock

[Gordon H.Kemp]

SM , a great point !!  we oft times look right some of the most simple but "effective" measures  , ;ooking for the MAGIC cure .
        Looks to me you've hit the nail on the head  !
        Lets all try to think of LITTLE items that can be put into practice , simple but effective .  :USA

[graybeard]

I apparently touched the philosphers' stone.  :!:  graybeard

[Gordon H.Kemp]

graybeard , sorry to have side tracked your question . You did get an answer but it's buried  among the other posts .

[greyhunter]

I wasn't aware of this rifle by traditions, however I have a fellow gun club friend with a traditions pa pellet rifle. Same thing?? TC also made the Firestorm to use pyrodex and pellets. Whats the  beef? If I remember the original thread only asked if the dumb thing worked as advertised! Guess what, they will also work with regular good ol' black powder. If I sold all my "factory front stuffers" I too could probably afford a "PC" muzzleloader. Problem is, I would only have one rifle instead of twelve flinters and sidelocks. I see nothing wrong with a flinter made to shoot "stick powder", or loose" fake "  black powder. If ya can't get the "real stuff" in your area, at least you are using a single shot, antique ignition, front loading attempt at being PC. God  Bless all who can afford a pc arm, but I won't belittle a person for using what they can afford. Jeez, next thing will we be casting a jaundiced eye at TC formed fake flints? The nearest black powder in my area is  a 60 mile round trip. At least I can still get it. If ya have to use the synthetic stuff you'll hear no complaint from me. Just don't bring an inline to my trad shoots, I have no targets for them. jmtc  

[Gordon H.Kemp]

Greyhunter , There was no intention on my part to belittle anyone for not having a grand or more to purchase a custom built weapon . No one knows better than I how hard it is to afford a gun to enjoy , that at least resembles those used to help make this a free country . If all that is available to someone is less than hc accurate . And only the subs are reasonably available to use as a propellent , do the best you can with what you can afford .
        My "beef" is with the Mfgs  and dealers that are , by their desire for profit , helping the anti gun anti hunting groups nibble away at our freedoms .
        Once again please accept my regrets  for any misunderstandings .
and also my apoligy fo taking this thread away from the original post . :USA

[Captchee]

Grey beard .
 Cants say I have tried that traditions gun .
 Now that being said . Some years back I think it was 1998 / some where there about .
 I  got to handle a prototype  conversion .” I wont mention the company  for legal reasons “
 I wasn’t  told what the make up of the material was  or what the flash powder was
 But my opinion is that it it was based on the same principle as a magnesium fire starter .
  I was told that the frizzen was  good for around 1000 falls and then needed to be replace .
 The steal “which replaced the flint”  was basically a one time deal  .
 I can tell you that it threw a shower of sparks like nothing I had ever seem before .
 And yes that includes the so called nuclear frizzen of  the late 1970’s

Now here is the kicker . If you used their  priming powder it would ignite synthetic powder
And “cough , cough “ smokeless powder .
  Now I don’t know for sure but  their pan powder look  very much like powdered magnesium to me ??
 But again I don’t know for sure .
Again this was a prototype .

 Now past all that . I want to mention  a few things on the other subjects brought up here
1) the lead banns are real . don’t for one second doubt that .. When   projectile companies  don’t have an issue with these bans . The shooting communities had better stand shoulder to should and fix bayonets

2)  concerning production guns  .  The TMA has never had an issue with  traditional  production guns .
 Be that Pedersoli , traditions , CVA , TC  or any of the old long gone companies like Jukar , Ultra high , mark well, browning , Remington ……..
 Nor can I recall anyone ever stating you had to have a custom or simi custom  when it came to shooting .
Now re -enacting . that’s another story . But  even then  it would depend on the level of the re-enacting one whishes to do. Because frankly even a simi custom or full custom may not fit the bill .

3) powder

 There are so many myths out there concerning BP  .
 It’s illegal . Its un safe , laws have been passed  making it hard to get ………. The list goes on and on .
 Most have no base or are completely un true .

Sadly though  when we point fingers . Some of those fingers  are pointed right at many of us .
  let me say , I have no issue with a retailer  making a profit . However I have a very big problem when retailers use Myth as a base for justifying that profit .

 Case in point . Why is it that  I can by True BP here. Clear across the country from the plant ,  for 9-10 a lb
When those of you back east , from what I read . Are paying 21 -27 a lb ? .
Should we not be paying more ?
 Top that off by the fact that the person selling at that price is still making 2-3.00 a lb over his cost

 So think on that . Who is causing folks to pay this completely out of hand price ?
 Is it the synthetic powder manufactures . the government . Maybe the modern muzzle loading industry ?
 Nope . Its people who can see they can make a whole lot of  profit base on nothing but  the fact that to many of their  customers believe the myths.

 I have ran into this very thing here  at some Vooo’s .
 don’t be afraid to simply  say ;  im not paying that . Im not buying anything from you  and im going to tell everyone I know  what your doing .

[Sir Michael]

Good post Capt.


The gun in question today may shoot plastic powder but to set it off requires two pans full of ffffg Black Powder, one pushed through the touch hole into the breach and the second in the pan.  From this information I would surmise that the design uses a type of Patent Breach that leaves an empty cavity behind the pellets of plastic powder so the first pan of real powder has a place to go and the second pan of powder is used to ignite the powder in the barrel which then can in the enclosed space of the breach build up enough heat to  ignite the plastic powder.

[Captchee]

if thats the case , then its relly nothing new . its simply  using a gimick to do what a duplex load will do . just alittle safer  probably

[Sir Michael]

What is somewhat comical is the this thing has been in existence since 2002 in its current form. :?

[Captchee]

.
 i think right now  companies are grasping at what ever they can . even the modern muzzleloading rifle companies are in deep .

 Knight has closed up . from what i have read . they had one heck of a time selling the company

Savage muzzleloading  is rumored to not be doing very well either .

even TC sold out to S&W  . so who knows how long  they will be producing muzzleloaders .
 

 everyone’s clamoring for any cut they can get right now . so it may be that Traditions is  seeing a turn  and remarketing a product . aiming for  those who  dont want an inline . but  are still willing to  mix modern with traditional

[Mustang]

There is a good point and I bet I am not the only one who thinks this way. As a new guy I am not going to spend $3000, $2000, $1000, maybe not even $500 for some builder’s idea of a custom gun just t see if I like flintlock shooting. I think you all should be ambassadors of the sport and not such detractors. You have to walk before you can run.

[Uncle Russ]

There is a good point and I bet I am not the only one who thinks this way. As a new guy I am not going to spend $3000, $2000, $1000, maybe not even $500 for some builder’s idea of a custom gun just t see if I like flintlock shooting. I think you all should be ambassadors of the sport and not such detractors. You have to walk before you can run.

Well said, Mustang!

This Organization was not built to please only those who felt anything and everything had to be PC / HC to be acceptable, but instead, it was put together to foster the use and acceptance of traditional styled firearms throughout the sporting fraternity.

I have personally watched us slowly move toward the pre-1840 era, mostly out of respect for the members that feel everyone needs to learn to do it right....However, at the same time I have seen many beginners get turned off on the whole idea by thinking you "have to have" such and such before you're even welcome at the campfire.
This is not, and was never the intention of the founders of this organization.  We are not, nor have we ever been strictly a pre-1840 outfit, and we did not model ourselves after the AMM, although it is a great organization and envied by many.

It's true that many have gone on to become "purist" in every sense of the word, but the function and mission of the TMA has never changed.

I can not speak for all organizations, but I can speak for the couple I have been a part of...none of them, and that means Zero, Zilch, Nada, and Null...none of them want to turn-off the new-comer by counting threads or condemning their equipment.

Many of the Green River Mountain Men, a very successful, well run, organization here in the Pacific Northwest,  are also members of the TMA, and any of them can tell you pretty much the same thing I have just said. Historical correctness is something to be admired, not preached.

There is a time and a place for the purist. Their exactness in everything they do is to only be admired, but turning away a new person to the sport is not a part of their plan.

To the best of my knowledge, our mission here at the TMA has remained unchanged....get the new comer involved and let him decide just how far he wants to go.

Uncle Russ...

[sse]

I think Russ sums it up very well.  My first traditional style rifle was a Thompson Center Hawken, a legendary production piece.  Legendary not only because it is fine looking and a great shooter, but because it really did, and does, make a great introduction to traditional ignition firearms.  I know that the more excited I got about traditional muzzleloaders, the more I wanted to progress to a faithful replica of an early firearm, something that is not represented by a T/C Hawken.

From there one can build on the participation in history by making or acquiring accoutrements to go along with a traditional firearm, and enjoy the recreation along with others.  This really is a marvelous past-time, which the TMA was created to celebrate and enhance wherever possible.

[Gordon H.Kemp]

SSE , Unc., Russ ,  Thanks for your input !  You have put into words my thoughts and I'm sure , many others .

[Captchee]

i would agree with Russ on this .
  some of the first posted and tutorials i  ever put on this forum , was on how to   fix up ones old CVA rifles .
 how to restock them . how to convert them . all for little to nothing ..

again i agree with Russ.  im sorry if i may have made it sound like i didnt