Traditions Pennsylvania flintlock

[graybeard]

The 2006 edition of Gun Digest says Traditions had   made a flintlock that by virtue of a super frizzen and a deepened pan would fire with Pyrodex priming and  Pyrodex pellets.  According to the article, the new lock provides "fast, sure ignition."  Anyone here know whether it worked?   Seems unlikely.  graybeard

[pathfinder]

Sounds like snak-oil to me.

[MikeC]

Stick to real BP for flintlocks.  You'll enjoy shooting more and regardless of what some say, real BP is easy and fast to clean.

[Gordon H.Kemp]

Graybeard , I havn't heard this before ! I quit buying Gun Digest several years ago and never came across articles in Traditional publications that made refference to this subject . There have been some scattered articles about different substances that can be used to face the frizzen , these things did in fact increase the "sparking" but certainly wern't PC/HC. Matter of fact I think at least one substance was radioactive and could cause health problems . :lol: I'm sure that one option would be ordering it drilled an tapped for a modern scope. :lol   I think we should all run and put our orders in before the word gets out ! OH Yeah , the projectiles wom't be made from nasty old lead . :evil:

[Riley/MN]

Yeah but Gordy, what do you think of this new gun?

 

[Gordon H.Kemp]

Might use them for tomatoe stakes or dingy anchors but the man made (altered) materials  might  kill the fish !!

[Sir Michael]

This is interesting since the manual on the Traditions WEB site was published in June of 2002 and in the text of it states that Triple 7 powder was added to the list of acceptable powders in January of 2002.  Reading the manual was a hoot.  

The pan and frizzen face should be cleaned with cleaned with acetone prior to loading each time.

After loading to prime the pan must be filled full with ffffg black powder which must then be tapped though the touch hole before again filling the pan 1/2 full with ffffg black powder.  

Which begs the question why if it is designed to use synthetic powder because real black powder is unobtainable does it require real black powder to fire?  Which leads to the question if you can get ffffg black powder to prime it why not just use fffg black powder for the main charge?

I suppose the makers of all that synthetic powder need to find some way to use it.

[Gordon H.Kemp]

As long as I;m not in a happy and generousa mood towards the folks that come up with these acts of stupidy , No#1 the fake BP should be installed where the sun don't and ignited   If after that proceedure is performed and there is still some left it could spread as fertilizer along with the remains of the  individuals that dreamed it up. In all fairness , They may have thought they were doing a "good" thing and it went bad !

[Sir Michael]

When I bought my first rifle I asked the maker what type of powder to use and mentioned Pyrodex, 777, and Clear Shot.  He told me that the only use he had ever found for Pyrodex was to mix it with water until you had the consistency of toothpaste and then spread it on brand new steel parts and leave it over night.  I left the steel part looking like it was 200 years old.  Other than that it was worthless.

I tend to agree with him.  

As for Traditions, they may be thinking that this will solve the problem of getting black powder but, it really doesn't help at all.  You still have to have a can of ffffg to prime with and if you can't get fffg what makes them think you can get ffffg.

[Gordon H.Kemp]

If you think about it There is much more truth than fiction in our smat alec posts . Every time a weapons mfg. or propellemnt mfg. conceeds 1 inch to the demands of the antis we loose a little more of the battle to keep and bear arms .  Some people go along with these antis out of ignorance (lack of knowdge) some go along because they feel threatened if they don't (politically correcct) many go allong because of money (Turncoat Toby) and some other former  "champions" of TRADITIONAL muzzleloading . SOME have the wealth (mayor bloomberg NYC) but feel they need to have control . :evil:  :evil:  
 Then there is the rest of us!!    :USA
        I don't jnow what the answer is , but I do know that if We , the hard core freedom fighters don't find a way to dig in and defeat the antis we are about to lose ALL our personal rights > :x  

[Kermit]

What I don't understand is where someone's head has to be in order to even THINK about buying such gizmos. Oh. Wait. I think the answer just came to me...

Truth: I really don't know what the appeal of the pseudomuzzleloaders is. Really, I don't. There must be a market, suitably identified by "market research," but what is it?

We need to be sure to work our butts off to see that this junk can't be used in "special" seasons. Then the market just dies. Doesn't it? Tell me it does!

I don't think it's "antis" who drive this. It's GUN OWNERS who are buying this stuff.

[Gordon H.Kemp]

Kermit , you are pretty much right ! Its gun owners who are makeing  it possible for the mfgs. and dealers to have  success in the market place with this JUNK . . How do they accomplish convinceing gun owners to purchase  such trash , Simple , scare tatics ! Their market experts take a rumor of a law thats about to be passed in one state or another and  build on that rumor untill it seems as though its a done deal and if the gun owners don't  have  one of this new generation of garbage , they'll have to give up shooting .
        An example of this type of marketing   was just practiced on us a short time ago , with the lead ban in Calif.  The trick is to convince  a member of , in this instance the gum owner s group , and have the tale cartried to the various sites and boards of the muzzleloading community by a member . The rest is history . Remember the gossip game where several kids lined up and the first kid read to the next kid a message that was written on rhe paper , the last kid would  stand in front of the rest and give his or her version of what waS ON THE NOTE.
        NEEDLESS TO SAY SELDOM WAS IT CLOSE  TO THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE !!!  Think about this when someone brings a message to the board'   We as gun owners need to ACT not REACT . We the gun owners need to take back as much control as poassible .
        The younger folks need to carry the ball . Most of the Old Farts like myself will be going to the big rondy in the sky soon and unless the younger crowd picks up the ball, it won't be long before theres no air in it . :USA  

[Uncle Russ]

AMEN, Brothers!

One would think that somewhere along the line someone would have challenged many of these statements under the "Truth in Advertising Act".

Surely "Traditional" users are not the only ones to see that something is bad wrong with all these claims by the manufacturers.

Something many of us have considered and discussed for years...Is it possible that the "Traditional users" of BP represent such a small percentage of total users, that our denial to their claims falls on deaf ears?
Is there, collectively, not enough of us to even matter in the overall scheme of things?

This past Wed. night I gave a pound of Goex FFg to a fellow member of the local Walleye Club.
After a short discussion on Muzzleloaders he informed me that since he started using muzzleloaders, about twenty years ago, he has always been told that real Black Powder is no longer available since it is unstable and dealers can no longer store it for sale....and this man is my age!

How many other untruths are being spread by the clown behind the counter?

The nonsense passed on by the manufactures and distributors of the faux powder is designed to do only thing and that is to sell their product....and that appears to be "The American Way".

I discussed this once with a friend of the family that is an attorney, and a traditional muzzleloader.
His response to my question on why isn't someone suing the living hell out of these folks for all their lies was...where is the liability? where is the safety issues? and where has damage been done?
He also spoke of other "legal" things a law suit must contain before being heard, but this is what I remember most.

According to him, the only law-suit of this nature, that he could recall, and one that had made the journals, had something to do with national advertising on TV about a particular brand-name shaving cream, and the plaintiff lost although the wording within the advertising itself proved to be untruthful and deceiving... one would think that anything proved to be "untruthful and deceiving" would be against the law, and would be the sole reason behind the Truth in Advertising Act....
However, the SCOTUS apparently has modified the Truth in Advertising Act so many times, in order to protect the 1st Amendment, that it takes more than just plain dishonesty to put a stop to something like this.
 

Just my thoughts.

Uncle Russ...

[Sir Michael]

After reading the posts under this thread something dawned on me. :? don't go there)


How many prospective muzzleloaders get on the WEB and visit us and other places like us where they are told over and over again that factory guns are worthless because they are are not exact replicas of guns that have survived the sands of time and that they are wasting they time and money getting one and that what they really should get is an umpteen thousand dollar gun from someone's favorite gun maker or that they really should get a kit and build their own.  When all they wanted to know was if one gun was better than another.

If we really want to do something about the types of guns manufacturers build and sell, lets start promoting wooden stocked cap and flint lock guns made by the few remaining manufacturers and stop dissuading prospective new muzzleloaders from even getting involved and driving them to the plastic junk on the market.

If we did this maybe just maybe we could build a market for wooden stocked cap and flintlock muzzleloaders and then maybe start a push for more historically accurate guns.

[Gordon H.Kemp]

Atta Boy Russ ,  I know that not ALL lawyers don't fit the dishonesty mold , but it seems that those are the ones  that go into politics . Some A new Atty, General was installed  in N.Y. State.  At a fancy function the new AG in comments to his auddience said in so many words , that these lawyer jokes needed to be stopped blah , blah . Of corse there were news reporters covering the affair . The following day in the reporters colum he told about the new AGs speel and spent a great deal of space on refference to the AGs dislike of "lawyer" jokes ".
        The reporter wrote that  there was to be no more tolewrence of these type of jokes . he then proceedesd to list several examples of the banned jokes . many that I'd never heard . The one that has always tickled me most was " WHAT IS 50 LAWYERS AT THE BOTTOM of THE ATLANTIC"?_)________ A GOOD START!!!!!! Becaause of the manner in wich the reporter presented  these jokes there was nothing the AG could do about them !
        If you are watchfull ? you can see the inroads the ANTIs  are maaking  into ORGanzations  that were  , if not  , actively promoting private gun ownership , at least remaining neutral .
        I think its time that all of us gun-pro people relized we had best not put off getting  on the wagon to support our rights if nothing more than a letter to our HO-HO local Representive . :th up