Traditions Pennsylvania flintlock

[Gordon H.Kemp]

Captchee , I wouldn't worry too much about  Unc Russ , At his age he'll forget what was said by morning . :lol:  

[Captchee]

heck i do that now and im not near as old as that old  cow hand LOL

[Uncle Russ]

Captchee , I wouldn't worry too much about  Unc Russ , At his age he'll forget what was said by morning . :lol:  

Uncle Russ...

[Uncle Russ]

I almost hate to bring this thread back up as it has certainly not been one of my favorites.
However, my first post in this thread brought several PM's and emails that were not very friendly, in view of not what I said, but more what I didn't say, so I thought I better clarify a few points.

First off, I would like to say I am NOT against anyone owning and shooting an In-Line, or any other type modern Black Powder rifle. Or, using any kind of powder they feel they can safely stuff down the barrel.

I just don't think they should be collectively "lumped" together with the traditional rifles and powder.

In an effort to prevent any more hard feelings, I would like to give you an analogy of my thoughts on this.

All my life I have preferred Vanilla Ice Cream to all other flavors.
This preference of mine is by no means unique in any way, as it reflects the choice of thousands of others much like myself.
Chocolate Ice Cream is Okay, as is Strawberry, Pecan, and all the 33 flavors offered by Baskin Robins, however they are just not the same as our beloved Vanilla.

Now, fast forward 30 years and we suddenly have all kinds of Ice Cream Manufacturers, serving their own brands, in their own containers, much of it is at an affordable price, all labeled New, Improved, and much better for you than that old fashioned stuff...and many folks like this, even go for it in a big way, and tons of this Ice Cream gets sold in a relative short time .

However, those of us who always preferred Vanilla in the past, are now getting Chocolate, Strawberry and all of these other flavors in a box that is clearly marked Vanilla.
It doesn't look the same, it doesn't smell the same, and doesn't satisfy nowhere near as much as our old fashioned Vanilla did, but we are still told it's Vanilla.

Do we feel cheated somehow? Would you somehow feel cheated too?

I can't explain this any better.

Uncle Russ...

[sse]

I just don't think they should be collectively "lumped" together with the traditional rifles and powder.

As you well know, Uncle Russ, this is why you and the other co-founders "co-founded" the Traditional Muzzleloading Association.

[Falsemuzzle]

This has been interesting. I figured you guys were alright.  

I am realtively new to ML shooting/hunting. My first rifle was a Traditions 'Deerhunter' .50 percussion because I wasn't sure if I would even like frontstuffers  :lol

I would also like to add that I am slowly (as budget allows) working towards a more traditional and period way of doing things. I've only purchased a few reproduction firearms which are, I guess, "baby steps" toward that goal.

I'll keep reading, and keep learning...

[Mustang]

Don’t you think it was/is really better that you learned by doing?
I have an affection for the advise from the more experienced “teachers” on these forums but there is no teacher like doing. When one of these guys says, “That won’t work.” It probably won’t, so there is some latitude there.
My own experience is real black powder and Pyrodex are virtually interchangeable in my caplocks but there isn’t any sub for real black powder in my flintlocks.

[Hanshi]

I have a few cans of Pyrodex given to me years ago.  Never used it in a rifle but tried it in a c&b .44 and a .45Colt SAA.  It really didn't work well at all.  I'll keep the Pyrodex because you just don't know when it might come in handy.  BP has always worked fine even in the .45Colt SAA.

[Kermit]

I seem to recall a recent article in Muzzleloader by Scurlock, I think, about a gun he had that was pretty simple (I didn't say inexpensive) that he thought might be a "loaner" to those new to the game. Anyone else have such a gun? Any clubs own percussion or flint long guns that they have as loaners?

I'm pretty sure each one of us has let, even encouraged, the curious bystander or new club attendee to shoot their gun. I think that's a real key. We need the inline pyrodex pellet sabot shooter to come out and join us in the fun. I'm not saying they need to compete in all the same shoots all the time.

The first club I joined had separate scoring of targets based on whether it was shot with percussion of flint. It was later abandoned, and everyone competed together. Maybe it's time to go back to that sort of thing. Might get some folks to come out and shoot. Then let them see and experience all the alternatives.

I started with an interest in single shot rifles and shotguns. That came out of archery. Then single shot simply morphed into muzzleloading percussion and then to flint. Now I'm looking at percussion again--not to replace any flinter, mind you. It started with a twinkle of interest from my wife saying she hadn't shot since she did with her dad, waaaay back. Rimfire came out again, since she can no way handle any recoil at this stage of life. Now she's asking about smallbore muzzleloaders. Could go anywhere, including nowhere.

Rambling here. Guess I'd just say we might benefit by being inclusive. Not every club will. There will be groups that want to be juried and exclusive. So be it. I just think there's room for all, and we need to interbreed a bit.

Guess maybe it's time for me to get serious about picking up a used percussion rifle as a loaner. Might start a newcomer. Maybe even my wife.

[Uncle Russ]

Rambling here. Guess I'd just say we might benefit by being inclusive. Not every club will. There will be groups that want to be juried and exclusive. So be it. I just think there's room for all, and we need to interbreed a bit.

Tremendous amount of wisdom in that little bit of 'Ramblin'.

Uncle Russ...

[Mustang]

You are not going to stop manufacturers from making profit generating products. The truth is you don't have to buy or use them. So, what difference does it really make? The HC/PC crowd is arbitrary and ambiguous at best. They can't even agree on what is and what ain't! You are right about not enough younger folks getting into traditional hunting and I don't know how to correct it. I try talking with everyone, younger people, I believe to be interested and haven't made a convert yet. Most say, oh, yeah that's cool, and then that is that.