pan priming

[shootrj2003]

There is a post in caplocks about nipple charging  and the subject came up about  pan priming,I had stated that I had a problem with hangfires in my blue ridge .36 and found out that upon using only a pinch of priming powder my hangfire problem has disappeared and I have good,consistant ignition now ,another poster stated that that subject could fill a forum,Please,I am not trying to step on toes here but the subject was compelling enough to ask ''What have others experienced as as priming a pan is concerned,does your flint gobble or just sip?

[greyhunter]

I try to keep the prime pwdr away from the vent hole. Usually two pushes from my priming tool on the outer edge. While hunting I will bang the side of the rifle  to jar the prime away from the vent . Stands to reason to me, that a full pan slows ignition. My flinters work just fiine with my method. Check your pan chrg all day as you hunt, change it or bang it to outer edge.

[Captchee]

yep . for the most part  i find less is better . to much and  it gets up against or over the flash hole . thus slowing the ignition way down .

 in another thread it was mentioned that you should be able to see or feel powder in the touch hole .
  i agree and  often times ill take alittle priming powder and push it into the flash hole .  then close the frizzen  and roll the rifle over so as to  slide whats left in the pan away from the  flash hole .

 myself with my rifles i dont find the powder needs to be way across the pan . just not  to close to the flash hole  or over it

[Firewalker]

Generally one push from the primer flask does it. It doesn't look like enough, but it is.

Or...drill that vent a bit larger and run a fuse in there!

[Captchee]

Generally one push from the primer flask does it. It doesn't look like enough, but it is.

Or...drill that vent a bit larger and run a fuse in there!

 yep . BUT keep in mind , the bigger the flash hole  is on a flintlock , the more pressure exscapes  during ignition . this effects  your  patern .
 so if you re drill to a larger size , you may need to  work a load for that change .

[Gordon H.Kemp]

First off , there ars many flint shooters who frequent this forum that have many years experience  in shooting and maintaing flinters , many more then myself . So whatever comments I make are soley based on my own abservatins with the flinters I shoot . "OLD" don"t always mean a person is smarter , just OLDER" . In the two flinters that I shoot on a regular basis , I"ve found that a nearly full pan has worked the best .

[mark davidson]

Im fairly new too but I read a bunch of very scientific tests on flinters and the results proved to me at least that banking the powder away from the touch hole was actually slower. My two flinters like lots of powder in the pan. I use about five pushes of the little primer powder pen for about a full pan. My guns are very fast and I can tell they are faster with a lot of powder in the pan than they are with just a little. You gotta see which one your gun likes. Lots of old "conventional wisdoms" are true wisdom and lots of them I have discovered to be old wives tales.

[biliff]

Put me in the full pan camp.  Can't see any difference in ignition speed, but have fewer misfires with a full pan.

[Kermit]

Sounds like several of you prime using those wee priming valves either on a brass flint primer or maybe installed on a small horn. I see "2 pushes" and "5 pushes" and such, but that doesn't tell me how much priming powder or what granulation is being used.

First, do you prime with 4f or 3f or 2f or something else, like pulverizing your own powder from coarser stuff?

Second, those little valve things come in two sizes that I know of. Are you using one that drops 3 grains or 1 grain?

I've got 5 flinters, all with different locks, different liners, one direct drilled. I use both Pierce white and Fuller black flints. While I sometimes try other powders for priming, ALL my guns work just fine with "2 pushes" from a 1 grain valve. Vent picked and clear. Final movement before shouldering the gun is to smartly tip the gun lock side downward (to the right for me cuz I'm shooting right-locked guns) to move the powder away from the vent.

Works for me. And maybe I'm just too lazy to experiment to see if there's a way to get faster ignition. For me, quick and reliable is what counts, and that is what I'm getting. I'm satisfied, so I'm keeping my routine. You should use what works for you.

I guess all this leads to: use what works. As has been said, "Your mileage may vary..."

[Loyalist Dave]

Im fairly new too but I read a bunch of very scientific tests on flinters and the results proved to me at least that banking the powder away from the touch hole was actually slower

The tests that I know of, gave results using their method of ignition, that the location of the prime resulted in fractions of a second slower ignition when banked away from the touch hole, but in the test where I am familiar, I wasn't too sure the testing method was as good as it needed to be to conclude on a lock that uses a frizzen that the results would be the same.  

The tests I saw tried to create a uniform ignition system to eliminate the variable of the flint striking the frizzen, but they also eliminated the surface of the frizzen as it pivots above the detonating prime, and the surface of the underside of the frizzen is always there, shot after shot, but the gap between it and the pan might be variable depending on when that hot sparks causes the ignition.

 Now, I do know explosives, and the movement of hot gases from a deflagrating substance IS influenced when it is confined between two surfaces as opposed to the test which merely set off the prime in a pan.  This is not a complaint, but simply a wish that a more flintock like mechanism was used to do the tests, for it has been demonstrated that the prime actually deflagrates as the pan is opened, in most cases not after the pan has reached its final position.  I just wonder where the banking "myth" came from for all myths have a basis for the belief.

LD

[mark davidson]

I use 4F. I have not weighed four or five pushes but I suspect I am using about 5 to 8 grains, about 2/3s of a full pan of 4F for my guns to go boom quick. Have any of you read those tests that were conducted with high speed photography of the flash and down the bore?  I think I got the access to the tests off of here. They were very detailed and very revealing. The photos and the white cards and the shots down the barrel all showed what really worked better and what was old wives tales. At least for me, the results were also true and applicable to my guns. There are lots of ways to skin a cat it seems, but some ways are indeed better than others according to the tests. They varied the amount of powder in the pan and also the orientation of the powder in the pan and also the position of the vent hole in relation to the pan. The photo results were indisputable.

[mark davidson]

Dave,
   I had typed my last post before I got to read yours. We may be talking about the same test; I am not sure.  You may well be right about the absence of the frizzen.

[Capt. Jas.]

http://www.blackpowdermag.com/featured- ... iments.php

http://www.blackpowdermag.com/featured- ... post-2.php

http://www.blackpowdermag.com/featured- ... part-2.php

[Gordon H.Kemp]

L.D.  I would have to agree wwith you about the frizzen , to me , it"s another varible with each flinter , the tension on the frizzen spring , wether it has a roller even the shape and angle of the frizzen would tend to make "some" difference . Thats why I feel that the only way to determine whats best in your weapon is to do your own experimenting . The tests did indicate that without the possible varibles of the frizzen and hammer , that for the most part , a fuller pan seemed to be the most consistant of the amount and placement of the prime charge .

[shootrj2003]

Mr.kemp,
 Well,It did not quite fill a forum but it definately is an interesting conversation and just goes to show the difference between our choice of firearms and modern ones,traditionals definately have more of their own personality!
I prime with a homemade primer made from the base of an antler drilled out then a push valve installed,it unscrews to  fill it.I grind my own powder from 3f in small amounts in a wooden mortar.,very gently a pinch at a time till I have a plastic film canister 1/2 full,it lasts a long time.1 push gives me a an official pinch and I try to rock her to the right before I shoot to put the prime to the outside of the pan,this works for me.