CVA Variations ?

[Captchee]

i wouldn’t for sure swamp .
 see even early on CVA was importing parts from jukar /Adesa
 the CVA mountain rifles with the Made in USA stamp were suposed to be  their flagship  line , were very good shooters  and originally sold for as much as a Remington or Ithaca .
thats why you see these still holding there value today .

 but in reality even their locks were made by Adesa
 myself i have even seen  what IMO were kit rifles with the Made in USA stamping . But the parts are clearly Spanish and sometimes even stamped so .

 We should also be frank here in our understanding of  CVA .
a lot of what  is known  is frankly speculation  or knowledge from those of us that have dealt with CVA  through their existence .
Take the Douglas and Sharon barrels . are we 100% sure  they made these barrels . Nope .
As I understand it , The owner of CVA Dave silk  had?
 I believe  Don Krammerer  build the proto type of the  first CVA mountain rifle .
 By this time CVA was already  purchasing rifles from Spain .
 But CVA was known for  short product runs  and when the MADE IN USA mountain rifles came out  Douglas was near the end of  their barrel making .
 As I understand it  Sharon took over  and finished the production or CVA bought  the reminder of the production . But even this is speculation because we just don’t have the records to  say for 100% certainty as that was at the end of the MT rifles  production run

  Where we run into trouble is that CVA didn’t keep real good records of  just who in the US was supplying them for a time .
 What I can tell you though is that  the early Mt rifles should have a barrel marked Made in the USA and the patch box should have 4 screws holding it in . later runs have only 2 screws on their box  and some have no country of origin  stamped on the barrels .
Even the RR thimbles are different in that  early rifles carried  a milled  type  of  steel thimble . Later  runs  were cast
 Myself , I believe these to have been made in spain , even though they don’t state it

 The other thing that is not commonly understood is where the CVA rifles come from which are pre 1971 . The reality of it though is that Connecticut valley arms  can trace its roots clear back to Eli Whitney not just to 1971  so its possible that earlier then 1971 someone else was using the name

 Still though the basic dirt  of it all is that CVA had so many different owners . Different production runs , limited production runs that all we can really do is try and piece together the  information we do have . Thus every now and then what we know changes as some new piece  pops up.
 but for now i would  say that if one doesnt know and the barrel isnt marked , its probably  a safe bet that its spanish  if its a CVA

[Hank in WV]

I have one of the newer Mt Rifles that was assembled from a kit about 8 or 9 years ago. On the barrel is: 50 cal CONNECTICUT VALLEY ARMS INC MADE IN USA 1-66. I was surprised to see made in USA on it. It's also a heck of a shooter.

[BGRooster1]

Swamp.Would it be best to pm you or just add to this discussion?Maybe even make a sticky out of it ?

I will wait for you to reply to ask my questions

[Swamp]

Thanks Capt!  

Rooster, you can PM me if you would like!

[Gordon H.Kemp]

The idea that CVA actually had such a catalog is news to me. I,ll be keeping my eye peeled for one. Capt. when you say CVA ran into legal problems , are you referring to their episode of breeching failures on the (in-line) models with serial no#s containing 95 or 96?
      I had heard they(CVA) had some other financial problems along the way , but have not found material to verify this. The last of the parts in stock were/are sold through Deer Creek Products. Ther is also a person in Mass. that cornered the parts for the SxS shotgun lock parts. I was reffered to him by DGW when trying to locate a lefthand lock mainspring a few years ago.  
       there has been a couple of CVA Mtn. Rifles on auctionarms
in recent weeks, don,t know from what run but anyone looking for one might check them out?

       

[Swamp]

Gordon,
I picked up this older catalog at an antique arms show. The guy had a pile of old magazines and what not, and as I went thru the pile, I found this one.

I also bought a Big Bore Mountain Rifle in .58 cal at the same show for $100. The guy said he was the original owner, and that he bought the rifle as a kit, and put it together back in the 1970's. He admitted that his gun building skills were not the best, but the rifle had potential. I took it home, and stripped everything down. The stock is now refinished like an origianl Leman rifle with the faux striping, and all the iron is rust browned. I still have to brown the barrel yet. But she's a beauty!  

[Captchee]

Capt. when you say CVA ran into legal problems , are you referring to their episode of breeching failures on the (in-line) models with serial no#s containing 95 or 96?

 That was actually  just the most resent issue Gordon .
CVA  also had issues with bolsters and breeches on traditional guns.
 The thing we should also remember and is not often  given do credit for  IMO , is that CVA  IMO was trying to be responsible . When it recognized issues , it tried to correct them . This is seen in the different evolutions in the drums and bolster designs.
 We should also remember that  in the recall of the mid 1990’s , CVA did that voluntarily even though there was pressure to do so .
All these things cost and when you margin of profit is so low  there isn’t a whole lot of safety margin  to be able to absorb  those costs or the costs of bad publicity.
Thus today you  read a lot of complaints about Spanish made muzzleloaders . But ever notice that  in those complaints you will 99% of the time find CVA mentioned . But what you hardly ever hear is “Traditions”. never mind traditions markets the same  guns . Made by the same Spanish manufactures .

 In a since IMO what happened was that CVA became the kicking dog with a cenonimous bulls eye  on its back .
 Never mind the fact that just like all gun companies , there are going to be failures . Remington has them , savage has them , Winchester , Ithaca and Pedersoli all have them .
 The difference is though  that there  are far more CVA product  out there then any other muzzleloading manufacture  .
 Take the resent issue with GM and their heli coil  application . What would have happened if that very same thing had been found to have been purposely done on a Spanish made muzzleloader barrel ?
 Yet GM  has came off relatively un scathed

 But those were not their only legal issues . At one time there were  a hand full of companies marketing   near identical  to identical products . Jukar , Markwell and Hi Point  just to name 3 . Even Dixie was at one time selling  the same gun , just with different patch boxs
See while CVA was an importer . They were actually designing  many of their rifles and then having  then made in Spain. So there was at one time a conflict as to actually who owned the rights  . The manufacture or the importer .
So it became one of those deals where  even though they may have won the battle . The cost of that battle  took its toll .

[BGRooster1]

Very interesting Captchee. I wish I new the problems associated with what years of production.It would be good info to have along when perusing the gunshows and auctions.

[Gordon H.Kemp]

Swamp, how about some photos of the Mtn.Rifle project?  Capt. thanks for the run-down onthe CVA bussiness history. I always had good luck with the CVAs I,ve had, Certainly not top of the line but great learning guns.

[Swamp]

Here you go Gordo! I finished this Mountain Rifle in the Leman fashion with faux striping. The stock is plain maple. I'm very happy with the way it turned out. I still have to finish the barrel yet. I'm looking forward to using this rifle during deer season.

[Roaddog]

Say now that's downright purrdy. Ya did a daren nice job there Swamp.

[Gordon H.Kemp]

Swamp, lookin good, That was a good price for a Mtn Rifle. That .58 ought to do the job for anything you,d decide to shoot in N.America.

[Riley/MN]

Dang swamp, I ain't got one with faux striping.... yet.

Good lookin shooter!

[mcknight77]

My Mountain Rifle is marked like this;

Connecticut Valley Arms
Black Powder only .50 cal."

Mine is marked the same. Plus serial number 0097xxx.

No USA or Spain,