Tell me about my rifle?

[Detached]

Hi all, new user here from SE MI.

I had decided a while back to hire a local gunmaker build for me a custom longrifle. Not sure exactly what I wanted, so I started looking around. Dad is from Kentucky and I live close to the River Raisin Battlefield in Monroe, Michigan. Knowing that Kentuckians fought and died at the battle, I thought I'd like to build a rifle that represents what would've been carried by one of these Kentuckians. As I started my research into the war of 1812, I learned something of great personal interest. I had an ancestor, a 1st cousin 4 times removed to be exact, that was a Kentucky Rifleman at the Battle of New Orleans.

This discovery has led me to change my thoughts. Now I would like to build my rifle to emulate what my ancestor might've carried. Of course, all things being equal I suppose the rifles carried by Kentuckians at the River Raisin were the same as those carried in New Orleans. So, tell me about my rifle.    

He was listed as a farmer by trade so not a rich man, and his rifle was most likely a workhorse. I suspect he used it for hunting and protection.

Was it plain, or did it have some decoration? What caliber might it have been? Would it have been built in Pennsylvania, or maybe by that time in Virginia or Tennessee? What school would be typical for the time and place? Would it have brass furniture, iron, or maybe silver? would it have a patchbox, and if so, would it be ornate or plain? Wood or metal? Would the stock be maple?

Maybe this rifle would already be 30 years old by the time he came to use it?

What would the typical Kentucky farmer's rifle look like around 1813?

Any help is appreciated!

[sse]

Welcome, and thanks for that thought provoking question.

I'm sure some others will come by soon to consider the matter.  I have one hunch/option, not entirely sure though.  There was a southern style poor boy with parts supplied by a few vendors and reproduced.  It was sparsely adorned, iron furniture, convertible to capper, no carving or engraving, some didn't even have a butt plate.  Most beautiful none-the-less...

[Detached]

...a southern style poor boy...sparsely adorned, iron furniture, convertible to capper, no carving or engraving, some didn't even have a butt plate.  Most beautiful none-the-less...

This is pretty much what I've been thinking. Something in a smaller caliber, like .40 or .45. I would probably use an iron  butt plate just to help protect the wood.

[sse]

They're also called southern mountain rifles, barn guns.

[Fletcher]

One thing I have seen that amuses me.....   Some folk think that to make their gear look historically
correct it has to look old.  When it was in service a long time ago - it was new - so it looked new !

Sure there may have had some wear, but the owners usually took very good care of their tools since
they were hard to and expensive to replace.  If your persona has in mind some hand me down gear
from a relative - then some wear would be understandable.

[mario]

I have to respectfully disagree  with the poorboy/barn gun subject. The concept of a gun without a full set of furniture is much later (post Civil War).

The cheapest guns around were trade guns, and they had full sets of furniture. Simple furniture, but a full set of it. We tend to think of folks on the frontiers during the 18th and early 19th centuries as having to make everything themselves, but that is simply not the case. A huge amount of trade goods went to KY/TN, etc. Guns from places like Philadelphia among them.

The best way to determine what they carried is to look at what they carried.

The July/August 2013 issue of MUZZLELOADER has a picture of a rifle built by John Jacob Sheetz on pages 40-41. This rifle was used by a Tennessean AT New Orleans.

Full set of brass furniture, with a quite ornate-looking patchbox.

A reproduction of it was built for the CLA auction last year. Look on the CLA website, they'll likely have info on it.

I would lean towards a simple "Late" Lancaster style rifle, perhaps a .50cal or so.

I also agree with Fletcher. Even in 1815, 1757 and 1779, people bought new stuff.

Mario

[sse]

I guess the rifle I was loosely visualizing is referred to by some as a 'barn gun', yet others as a Schimmel.  If you google the phrase you'll see what I mean.  Now, whether that fits with the OP's scenario, not sure...

[greggholmes]

Muzzle Blasts may 1992 has a good article on the southern mountain rifle.
An excerpt.

[Detached]

Excellent comments all.

Trust me, I have no intention of making my rifle look old or used! My question was meant to help determine the period it might have been built as opposed to wear and tear.

Mario: All good info. I agree, "The best way to determine what they carried is to look at what they carried." That is exactly what I am attempting here. I don't have tons of books or media on the subject. Internet searches turn up a myriad of different guns and some very general statements. I figured that the best people to ask would be those who've studied the subject for years and years. I appreciate your input, please keep it coming. Pictures and links are what I need!

[Detached]

A reproduction of it was built for the CLA auction last year. Look on the CLA website, they'll likely have info on it.

What a beautiful rifle! Period correct and made in KY.

Of course I have no idea what my ancestor's rifle looked like, so the best I can do is choose something he might've used. This rifle is pretty much what I had imagined, less the ornate patchbox. This would be a perfect basis for my rifle.

[Buzzard]

Great question Detached; thinking beyond the gun; was this relative born and raised back east, or right there in Kentucky? That answer might well settle your decision. If  he came to Kentuk as a middle aged man, he'd have already own his gun. Born in Kentuk, he'd have bought a SMR when he grew old enough to afford one.

[mario]

Muzzle Blasts may 1992 has a good article on the southern mountain rifle.
An excerpt.

"The earliest known of these dated Southern rifles is 1815; most were built in the 1820s..."

According to this article, the SMR would not be a viable option for the OP's time frame.

I guess the rifle I was loosely visualizing is referred to by some as a 'barn gun', yet others as a Schimmel.  If you google the phrase you'll see what I mean.  Now, whether that fits with the OP's scenario, not sure...

As I said before, the concept is post-CW. This, much like other parts of muzzleloader lore, comes from the early 20th century. When the folks that were re-discovering the ML gun looked at the folks in the hills that were still using them, they figured that's how/what/why the folks in the old days (pre-CW) MUST have done it.

Mario

[sse]

Mario, the links I saw referred to 'barn guns' often having no butt plate, late 18th century, early 19th century, so you would have a quibble with them.  These are supply houses providing the description.  I take nothing as gospel, just relating what I read.

[Detached]

Great question Detached; thinking beyond the gun; was this relative born and raised back east, or right there in Kentucky? That answer might well settle your decision. If  he came to Kentuk as a middle aged man, he'd have already own his gun. Born in Kentuk, he'd have bought a SMR when he grew old enough to afford one.

This is more fun than a barrel of mokeys, ain't it?  

The cool thing about my surname is that it's fairly unusual, making it fairly simple to trace back. It is in fact so unusual that it's (almost) a given that anyone with that name, especially from the period, is a relative. In this case I was able to trace this person back to my GGGG Grandfather.  

The family is Scots-Irish, or Scotch-Irish if you prefer. We've been able to trace my GGGG Grandfather back as far as Barbados, where they immigrated from Ireland. From Barbados they went to the Carolinas, and eventually Kentucky, specifically Wayne County Kentucky. The relative in question was "borned and raised" in Wayne County Kentucky. He is my GGG Grandfather's nephew.

The example rifle provided by Mario is perfect. From the article associated with the rifle:

By the time of the War of 1812 the “Kentucky Rifle” and the frontiersmen who used it had already captured the imagination of the American public.  When the War grew imminent, the danger and perhaps chance of adventure spurred young men who had grown up hearing and reading of the exploits of their elders to volunteer for the War in droves.  Fringed hunting frocks, elegant top hats, long knives  -  and often a fine golden age “Kentucky Rifle” in hand.   They marched off  to face the old adversaries of their fathers’ times  - British, Shawnee, Creek and others, often led by the very veterans they idolized as heroes; men like Isaac Shelby and William Whitley who had first crossed the Appalachians to the Kentucky wilderness 40 years earlier.  

What is not readily recognized is the role that early Kentucky gunmakers played in supplying arms to the men who served from the Thames to New Orleans and there is a misconception that “Kentucky rifles were not actually made in Kentucky.”   However, by the time of the War of 1812 some of the most prominent, artistic and important schools of southern gunmaking were well established in what is now Kentucky and Tennessee.  One of the most prominent early families of southern Trans-Appalachian gunmakers were the Bryans, working in and around Lexington Kentucky at the center of the “Central Kentucky” school of gunmaking.  Relatives of the Boones, the Bryan family gunsmiths (William Sr., Daniel, William Turner and Lewis) built distinctive rifles in what we now recognize as the Lexington style in the late 18th and early 19th centuries.   Like the men who carried them, the Lexington style rifle was an integral part of the close of the eastern frontier and indeed the expansion to the far western mountains.  

http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2013/07/2013-cla-live-auction-fine-lexington.html

Thus we see that this rifle, or one similar in design and execution, would be a good choice to represent what my ancestor might've carried into battle at New Orleans. It is at the very least no worse a choice than any other rifle of the period.

I see mine with a patchbox, but something more plain. No additonal inlays with the possible exception of the side plate, and no carving. It will be mounted in brass, and most likely browned. It will have a flamed maple stock, but probably a bit more 'working man' than the one made for the auction. It will have a swamped barrel just because I want one, and will be in .45 caliber. The most important thing is that it maintains the beautiful, graceful flowing lines that the original rifle exhibits.

What do you all think? Sound acceptable?

[sse]

I want one...!