SMALL Bore muzzleloader help

[lbothell]

Okay so I need some help (once you read this you'll really think I need help ha) Anyway I read somewhere of a gentleman who made REALLY small bore muzzleloaders. He was shooting .117 pellets out of it. It was a longrifle in every way shape and form and a flintlock at that but was pretty much made to shoot bbs ha. I am very interested in something like this, I have my reasons. I know the issues that go with such a small caliber so I'm not looking to be steered away I'm just looking for information. Who can make me a barrel in such a small caliber? Any information would help because I can't find that thread anywhere and can find NO information while searching Google. Thanks!

[RobD]

i've definitely read up folks doing bb flintlocks, just can't remember the document/article sources.  i think that'd be too cool!

[lbothell]

I know! Glad you feel the same way! Well so what I was thinking was get one of these made up for the English sparrows in our region. In Pa as well as other places they are open year round no closed season. Just thought it would be a great way to extend me getting to carry a gun in the woods while also doing our native birds a service   plus it would be a cool build. But getting back to the point, these calibers do exist then?

[RobD]

it would/should be ridiculously quiet, but there'd still be a bunch of that 'sweet' smoke from the 5 grain charge.

[Bigsmoke]

Clarification:  You mean .177 not .117, right?

Hmmm, methinks I have heard of folks that had made .22 caliber muzzleloaders, so why not go that way and re-purpose an old .22 barrel.  Seems it might be a lot easier than trying to get a .177 cal barrel made.  Could maybe use the Betsy lock from L & R?  I think that's what their small one is called.  After that, it would just be like building a regular rifle.  Only on a slightly smaller scale.
If you were thinking of using shot, I guess the barrel would need to be reamed out.  Imagine your friendly local machine shop could do that.  Probably could only use like #9 shot in it.  Or, if you were going to shoot ball, Jeff Tanner could probably make a little brass mould in what, .205 or .210?  Maybe .215?
Cool idea, I'd be interested in following the build.
Go for it!!!
John

[Bigsmoke]

it would/should be ridiculously quiet, but there'd still be a bunch of that 'sweet' smoke from the 5 grain charge.

Man, what a change of pace from the old 8 bore, about 23 shots per pound.  

Funny to think that I often spill as much powder per shot as he would use.

[lbothell]

I don't mind the. 22 idea actually looked into it but then wondered if the, and correct me if I'm wrong this is off the top of my head, 1:16 twist would affect a round ball? I know we are normally looking at a 1:48 to as slow as 1:70. That's why I was lookin for a barrel maker. And yes I did mean .177 my bad! I'm will say I am liking the enthusiasm keep the ideas coming and we will make this little English sparrow slayer

[RobD]

i like the idea of a bp bb flintlock rifle.  something reasonably accurate to about 20 meters tops.  there are more than a few gunsmiths and gunmakers that are here, one will chime in sooner or later.

[lbothell]

I agree just a matter of time. And yes 20meters is perfect can't see that sparrow open sites much farther anyhow, well at least I can't. Being that's all the father I'm shooting, and target being so SMALL, could I get the accuracy needed if it was a smooth bore as someone already mentioned? Just figured that's a pretty easy barrel to drill

[Bigsmoke]

No habla metric, senior.
So, in old time American, 20 meters would be about 22 yards or a little less, right?
I have no doubt that you could do that with a little smoothie quite easily.
Might have to work with your powder charge a bit to dial it in.  "Hmmm, let's see now, I'll bump it up from 5 to 5 1/4 grains and see what that does."  lol.  You definitely won't be using Fg powder, that's for sure.  What do you think, guys, Fffg or Ffffg?
Truly sounds like a fun and unique project.  I like it.  (And I don't like tiny guns much, either.)

[Hank in WV]

If I remember right, Davis makes a really nice round faced pistol lock that might be just the right size for a barrel like that.

[RobD]

with such a small volume, i'd try both and see what works best.

a bb smoothie should do the trick, no rifling needed.  a bb is .177 so a bore of .195 or so should do an allow for patching.  fouling will be a major issue and cleaning 'tween shots pretty mandatory, i'd think.

[Mike Brooks]

I have built a .25 before. Shoots extremely well with 30gr 3fff. It has a 48" swamped Rayle barrel with a 1 in 48 twist. I would assume a .22 or .177 would work almost as well.The main problem with anything that small is the ram rod, probably going to have to go with brass rod. drilling the RR hole would be interesting as  it's going to be less than 1/4". I'd go with something like an A weight swamped barrel  and probably around a 1 in 36" twist.

[RobD]

i've seen and shot a .25 flinter - tiny!

mike, what'd be your guess for a .177 powder charge?  3f or 4f?  i figure a bore of just under .20 to allow for patching?  smoothbore should be as good if not better than a rifled barrel?

[lbothell]

The more I think of this the more I just want to go with a tiny smoothie haha just seems like a cool thing. Okay so my question is how affective at 20 yards would a, let's say .25 cal smoothie work with shot in it? I know a patches round ball would be fine as we mentioned but would it be a blowout with shot or would it hold somewhat of a pattern out to 20? I know this is all speculation bc I don't know of a .25 caliber smoothie ha