How Clean is Clean Enough?

[AxelP]

The following is not for everyone, but one of the reasons I like to shoot and hunt with traditional muzzleloaders is the simplicity and also the economy (at least after you buy the gun). I have found that you can find most things to take care of your gun already in your faucet, your pantry and/or garage. I clean my barrel with water. I lube/protect my barrel with sweet oil melted/mixed with a little beeswax. If I happen to have some bear oil around I'll use that instead of the sweet oil. I rub the stock and exterior parts with the same. My bores are clean and my guns shoot straighter than I can hold em.

For modern contrivances, I will often use WD40 to displace any extra moisture in the bore when at home and before I lube. eazy peazy.

Any more than that seems like over-kill to me. clean is clean and super extra clean does not seem to be necessary, and besides, it irritates my tendency towards older simpler ways. The idea of buying some special whizbang wonder jelly and having to rely on that the rest of my shooting days does not appeal to me. I also shoot black powder cartridge rifle and modern pistol too, and I tend towards "less is more" with those as well.

K

[Winter Hawk]

FYI:

http://handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=9

-Kees-

[AxelP]

I am sure reds is really good stuff. I have tried other recipes and products in the past and they most all work. I just like the simplicity of water. Its historically correct for the era of my guns too, which is something that is important to me. I can't judge anyone in that regard though because I use WD40 when I am at home and nobody is lookin.

K

[Uncle Russ]

I understand. Sometimes we get so involved with our reading and our own experimenting we overlook the basic concept of simplicity.....it's easy to do, and many of us are guilty.

But has anyone for one minute, ever thought those same guys may be having fun too?
And isn't that what it's really all about?

Uncle Russ...

[Ohio Joe]

Plain old water is great, but I can't use it for my muzzleloaders when cleaning here at home for one big reason, I have a water softener and they feed on salt - so I certainly don't want to use salt water to clean my ML's... I'll stick with my Dollar Store - $1.00 per gallon windshield washer fluid for now - to which I add 16 ounces of 98% Alcohol... I'm no stranger to using water to clean my muzzleloaders with as I use to when I lived at places that didn't have a water-softener. The way I see it is whatever works best for each individual for whatever reasons is all good. 

[AxelP]

Sure. Its human nature to want to come up with a better mouse trap! We all do that at times don't we? I bet the old dead guys did that too, and yes, its fun for us to do!

Actually I enjoy cleaning my muzzleloaders and consider it part of the historical shooting experience. But its not my favorite part of the experience, so keeping it simple and quick is key for me. Adding more modern chemicals and processes detract from the historical aspect? As I posted above, my ways are not for everyone. I'd not consider using more modern cleaning methods for my muzzleloaders any more than I would consider buying and shooting a modern inline. But saying that, we all have to make certain modern compromises and there is no way I can say my compromises are in any way more purer or better than anyone else's. They just fit my own preferences is all (as yours do for you). yes.... its all good.

My well water goes thru a softening process but it also goes thru a separate reverse osmosis process at the sink, and about everything is removed from it (even the good stuff). So my water is probably too clean. I bet 18th C creek water contained salts and minerals that do not do a rifle bore any favors, But how do we know modern solvents don't also etch the bore on a microscopic level? That might be how it gets your bore so pristine. Acetone is a powerful stripping chemical. Do you ever have any issues with it messing with your stock finish? Just curious. Water can be a strong force on rock and metals. I have seen it used to cut solid granite for counter tops, and it was used to make the deepest canyons on earth.

[prairie dog]

I wish I could get my hands on some sperm whale oil and bear grease, then I'd be doing it the good ol' way.  But then I would need a soft iron hand forged barrel too....

Dang it all, I'll just have to make do with what I gots...

[Uncle Russ]

I wish I could get my hands on some sperm whale oil and bear grease, then I'd be doing it the good ol' way.  But then I would need a soft iron hand forged barrel too....

Dang it all, I'll just have to make do with what I gots...

I would love to have...."what you gots"!

I agree those two items mentioned are hard to come by nowadays, especially since I no longer have any Bear fat, and I don't know anyone who has at this time...but I have used it lot over the years, because at one time it was "THE thing to do", if ya get my drift.
Plus...I have always wanted to get my hands on some Sperm Whale Oil, which has never happened.
I have been told DGW has had it, on occasion, but I have never seen it advertised, and I don't know anyone that works there.
We're supposed to be able to substitute Automatic Transmission Fluid for this, and I have read of a few doing just that, straight from the can.

If I were you, which I'm not, otherwise I would be owning "what you gots", but I would wait on some real Sperm Whale Oil to come my way...now, for myself, and my old "beater" guns, I do use ATF, I use it in Ed's Red, but as can seen by this thread, Ed's Red ain't for everybody, and that is just as it should be, IMHO. 

Uncle Russ...

[Hanshi]

I'm not one who loves to clean; it's like washing dishes after a large meal.  I'd rather shoot!  But cleaning HAS to be done and items such as WWF do just fine and are cheap and available all around.  My motto is: "Water am good and cheap". 

[AxelP]

olive oil works ok too. pretty much any animal based oil or tallow that is free of salt works. Bear works great. The original Lehigh valley lube worked exceptionally well for me as did Ballistol.

I just got sick of buying "stuff."

Crisco used to be the thing. WD40 at one point was ok, then it became a "no-no" but now its approved. I use it currently and it works just fine and always did. Then there is the gajillion cottage industry recipes that are sold under a million different names that all work about the same. Everyone has their fave and will swear that it's better than the other stuff and will fight to the death to say its so.

I have used sperm oil, it worked fine but its no magic potion either. What works is a regular cleaning and oiling regimen. And avoiding too much rain or moisture or dramatic sudden temp changes.

[prairie dog]

Russ,

You just reminded me how blessed I really am.

Back to "stuff"  Automatic Transmission fluid, supposedly created for tank transmissions as a substitute for whale oil and olive oil known as sweet oil back in the day.  Both work well for our applications.  Fortunately, for us modern folks this whole black powder business ain't too complicated in the fact that so many different substances will work just fine to keep our smoke poles clean, rust free, and functioning well.  Seems that just about anything we have handy will do the job.  And that ain't much different than it's always been.  Those old fellers back in the day, they had to use what they found handy too.  And some of them even lived to tell the tale.   

[prairie dog]

I'm not one who loves to clean; it's like washing dishes after a large meal.  I'd rather shoot!

Totally agree.  I learned the hard way if I want to hear a boom every time I pull that trigger, I must clean it properly. 

[AxelP]

Matt Avance of TVM recommends ATF in their barrels. I have never tried it because I have other stuff easier to hand.

I agree with y'all. A person can get by with mostly whatever he finds at home to get the job done when it comes to muzzleloading. OR you can get into experimentation and fine tune your process to your heart's content! We all have a place in the choir it seems. yep yep. I think you could argue that the average colonial or frontiertrash, used whatever, and the local sharpshooter that won all the turkey shoots may have had a secret ingredient that brought home the bacon every time! So both ideas are probably documentable historically speaking.

[prairie dog]

Yep, it's just a question of who, when, and where.

[Eric Krewson]

I had a great friend who was big into buckskinning back in the day, before he died he gave me all his stuff. He used to say how great whale oil was for M/Ls, he had two small antique looking metal oilers about the size of a credit card in his tackle box. I suspect they have whale oil in them but don't know how to tell for sure.