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Author Topic: safe loading of flintlock and percussion  (Read 2960 times)

Online The Miner '49er

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Re: safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2019, 03:52:03 PM »
10-4 on that! I checked out Von Steuben's manual of arms for the soldier and wondered about the 'prime the pan first method',  but I don't think that soldier safety was of utmost importance at that time. Does anyone, perhaps someone in a Civil War reenactor group, have access to the manual of arms of that period for the ML rifle?
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Offline RobD

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Re: safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2019, 04:33:20 PM »
IMHO, the most unsafe way to load (in this case) a flintlock, that was a practice of the Military of that day,,, was to prime the pan from the paper cartridge / close the frizzen (so the cock would have to be at half cock for this, then pour the paper cartridge powder down the bore - followed by the paper and ball all at the same time,,, and this was repeated many times in battle and very quickly (if you were lucky enough to survive the volley-fire from the enemy.....)

So, loading like the Military loaded back then - this must not have been an issue for them... I wouldn't care to duplicate that without first blowing down the barrel, which many frown on these days.

speed of fire was more important than safety, or the life of any of his majesty's foot soldiers.

go back another century and consider the dangers a matchlock wielding soldier faced.  yikes!


Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2019, 11:45:00 AM »
I always have the hammer down, frizzen stall in place and a toothpick in the touch hole on my first load of the day. Subsequent load are with the frizzen flipped and the hammer down.

Online The Miner '49er

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Re: safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2019, 02:54:44 PM »
I might have struck some gold. Ohio Joe in reply #14 talks about the practice of the military back in the day of the flintlocks. The more I thought about it, it seems likely that former military men would have carried into their lives, after the war, the gun handling practices taught them when in the service. A little more digging took me to Brig.-Gen. Silas Casey's 1863 Manual of Arms. Pages 9-13 describe and illustrate the Army way to load a percussion long arm using a paper cartridge. It begins with the hammer forward on a fired cap. Once the paper is torn the powder is poured down the barrel then the ball is started with sprue up. No mention is made of what to do with the paper! Finally the hammer is put on half-cock, the old cap is removed, it gets recapped and hammer goes to full-cock. It makes sense that this is how a large number of former soldiers and sailors would have continued to load their percussion arms in the days following their service. Extra points for the general, safety of to serviceman seems to have become taken into consideration, and thanks to all who have replied.
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Online Bigsmoke

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Re: safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2019, 04:14:30 PM »
No mention is made of what to do with the paper!

I believe the paper cartridge, with the ball secured inside it, is loaded as a unit.  The paper acts like a patch of sorts.
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Online The Miner '49er

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Re: safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2019, 05:11:36 PM »
That is also my belief. The manual merely says to "put the cartridge between the teeth, tear the paper to the powder, empty powder into barrel, disengage the ball from the paper with thumb and fingers, then insert it into the bore, the pointed end uppermost, then ram it down", then finally go to half-cock, remove spent cap, put on new cap, cock and fire. Perhaps the word 'it' refers to paper as well as ball, that would make sense.
Defend the 2nd Amendment - If you can't fight for your rights, you don't have any!     "I was standin' at the toe mark on the 25-yard line, I was gunnin' fer' a 50 with my rifle Clementine."

Offline RobD

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Re: safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2019, 05:22:18 PM »
That is also my belief. The manual merely says to "put the cartridge between the teeth, tear the paper to the powder, empty powder into barrel, disengage the ball from the paper with thumb and fingers, then insert it into the bore, the pointed end uppermost, then ram it down", then finally go to half-cock, remove spent cap, put on new cap, cock and fire. Perhaps the word 'it' refers to paper as well as ball, that would make sense.

yep, no different as with a flintlock brown bess being loaded by one of his majesty's soldiers of foot.  the cartouche paper is the wadding/patching.

no matter what lock flavor, common sense should prevail.  except with those pesky matchlocks.   :o ;D

Online rollingb

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Re: safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2019, 06:14:15 PM »
I might have struck some gold. Ohio Joe in reply #14 talks about the practice of the military back in the day of the flintlocks. The more I thought about it, it seems likely that former military men would have carried into their lives, after the war, the gun handling practices taught them when in the service. A little more digging took me to Brig.-Gen. Silas Casey's 1863 Manual of Arms. Pages 9-13 describe and illustrate the Army way to load a percussion long arm using a paper cartridge. It begins with the hammer forward on a fired cap. Once the paper is torn the powder is poured down the barrel then the ball is started with sprue up. No mention is made of what to do with the paper! Finally the hammer is put on half-cock, the old cap is removed, it gets recapped and hammer goes to full-cock. It makes sense that this is how a large number of former soldiers and sailors would have continued to load their percussion arms in the days following their service. Extra points for the general, safety of to serviceman seems to have become taken into consideration, and thanks to all who have replied.

Dumping a charge and ramming a patched ball down on the powder, will often cause a patched ball to raise off the powder due to trapped air (think hydraulic effect) when loading a percussion rifle with a spent cap on the nipple and the hammer down blocking the escape of trapped air.
Under those circumstances air can be trapped between the powder charge and the patched ball, which can result in a burst barrel upon discharging the gun.

In 1863, percussion small arms during the Civil War would have been loaded by grabbing a paper-wrapped "cartridge", tearing the bottom of the cartridge off with your teeth, dumping the charge down the bore, followed by the slightly undersized conical bullet (with paper still attached) was rammed down upon the charge.

The paper rammed down on top the conical prevented the undersized conical from slipping/moving forward (creating an air space between charge and bullet) until the gun was fired.

Upon the gun's discharge the hollow base of the conical expanded to engage the bore's riflings.

This procedure lends itself towards an easy, and quickly, loaded conical bullet that was pretty accurate for the times, and allowed any trapped air in the bore to safely escape past the undersized bullet, as it (with remaining paper) was rammed home.

Soldiers of the Civil War, often took their rifles (muskets) home when leaving the service,.... so they were probably still using home-made "cartridges" with undersized conicals during civilian use.

THERE IS NO WAY,... I'D EVER ADVISE ANYONE LOADING A PATCHED ROUND BALL IN A PERCUSSION MUZZLELOADER, TO DO IT WITH A SPENT CAP ON THE NIPPLE WITH THE HAMMER DOWN.
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Online rollingb

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Re: safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2019, 06:38:15 PM »
That is also my belief. The manual merely says to "put the cartridge between the teeth, tear the paper to the powder, empty powder into barrel, disengage the ball from the paper with thumb and fingers, then insert it into the bore, the pointed end uppermost, then ram it down", then finally go to half-cock, remove spent cap, put on new cap, cock and fire. Perhaps the word 'it' refers to paper as well as ball, that would make sense.

yep, no different as with a flintlock brown bess being loaded by one of his majesty's soldiers of foot.  the cartouche paper is the wadding/patching.

no matter what lock flavor, common sense should prevail.  except with those pesky matchlocks.   :o ;D

IIRC,.... the loading procedure for loading the Brown Bess, was to bring the hammer to half-cock, draw a paper cartridge from it's box, tear the bottom of the cartridge with your teeth, prime the pan and close the frizzen, dump the remaining charge down the bore, followed by ball and paper rammed tight.
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Offline RobD

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Re: safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2019, 06:56:41 PM »
this is how it was done ... gotta mind those delayed ignitions!


Online rollingb

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Re: safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2019, 09:52:26 PM »
this is how it was done ... gotta mind those delayed ignitions!



Yep,.... that's the loading procedure I remember! :hairy    Except the shooter should stare at the musket for 10 seconds after a hang-fire.  :laffing  :bl th up  :laffing
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Offline Ohio Joe

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Re: safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2019, 10:13:10 PM »
THERE IS NO WAY,... I'D EVER ADVISE ANYONE LOADING A PATCHED ROUND BALL IN A PERCUSSION MUZZLELOADER, TO DO IT WITH A SPENT CAP ON THE NIPPLE WITH THE HAMMER DOWN.

I agree completely with this.  :hairy
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Online The Miner '49er

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Re: safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2019, 11:09:02 PM »
My great thanks go to the last three guys whose wise words I will heed regarding NOT loading a patched round ball with a spent cap held on the nipple by the hammer. This forum could be a real life saver! Thanks again to everyone.  :hairy
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Offline SharpStick

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Re: safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2019, 03:39:45 PM »
I definitely learned something new here. Probably lucky nothing went wrong for me.  :Doh!
 
So the procedure for patched round ball and percussion is?
  • half cock
  • remove spent cap
  • powder, patch, ball
  • ram
  • cap
  • full cock
  • shoot
  • repeat
It all makes perfect sense now that you all made me think about it.
Thank You! Thank You!
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Online rollingb

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Re: safe loading of flintlock and percussion
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2019, 06:23:11 PM »
I definitely learned something new here. Probably lucky nothing went wrong for me.  :Doh!
 
So the procedure for patched round ball and percussion is?

  • half cock
  • remove spent cap
  • powder, patch, ball
  • ram
  • cap
  • full cock
  • shoot
  • repeat

It all makes perfect sense now that you all made me think about it.
Thank You! Thank You!
 :hairy

Yep!  :hairy
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