why I'm here instead of somewhere else.

[KDubs]

Re: New Green Mountain Roundball Barrel Test
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2019, 08:35:16 AM »
Quote from: Ohio Joe on October 03, 2019, 07:41:04 PM


I was just reading your patches and I believe that your gasses are blowing by your patches at those clover leaf "v" in the patch. That's what I'm seeing. 

There's an easy way to find out... Cut 3 or 5 (1.25 x 1.25) square patches, lube 'em or spit patch 'em, and see if they show signs of gasses escaping around the ball.

I agree with you Joe, This is very plausible, These are Short Patches (40-49) I have felt that a Shorter patch would give better accuracy? I didn’t like that a longer Patch Grabbed my Short starter, so i started experimenting with Shorter patches, Accuracy has been REALLY Good  the downside with These Shorter Patches is they are kind of Pain to get Centered. These Particular Patches are that “Flower pedal” Cut design from October Country, Beings these are already Short, The V Notch of the Pedals might be where the Problem is?

  I have some Larger unlubed .50-59 .018 Blue Stripe Ticking, I will lube some of them up and See what happens? I also plan to accuracy test Cutting Patches at the Muzzle. Everything i do revolves around accuracy, my enjoyment comes from seeing just how Accurate i can get my Rifles, I test every variable i can think of. It will be interesting to See if a larger Cut Patch stops the Problem i had yesterday


  I have been trying to learn and diagnose patch issues myself. this post above from awhile back was exactly what I needed as I too use the daisy style patches and experienced the same results.
  the eagerness of the folks on this site , willing to help someone with straight forward answers ,not trying to sway me to one style or product.   love it.
 now I too have been to the fabric store with my micrometer, picked up some blue stripe mattress ticking .018 and I'm off to play with that.
 Thanks everyone for this site, keep posting and shooting 
 kevin
 

[Oldetexian]

 

[Ohio Joe]

 

[Uncle Russ]

       

[RobD]

Checking fired patches is kinda important. 

Well, that is, unless the consistent accuracy is excellent shot after shot ... then I don't care what the used patches have to show me. 

   

r.

[Winter Hawk]

May I suggest that you get in contact with Idaholewis?  He's somewhere in Northern Idaho, and very keen on accuracy.  Also on long range shooting.

Quite a few of us don't use precut patches, but cut them at the muzzle.  I don't use a short starter, but the side of my knife handle to push the ball down even with the muzzle.  Then slice across the muzzle to cut the patch, hold the ramrod 6" or so from the end and use it to start the ball down the bore.  Move the hands a foot or so up, push the ball down and repeat until it is seated on the powder.

Lots of folks then throw the rod down on the ball several times until the powder is packed enough that the RR bounces up a bit.  I've tried that but the only rod I've broken happened doing that.  Ned Roberts made a point of saying not to bounce the rod so I quit it.  I don't see any change in accuracy, but then I'm not steady enough to see the difference anymore. 

~Kees~

[RobD]

... Lots of folks then throw the rod down on the ball several times until the powder is packed enough that the RR bounces up a bit.  I've tried that but the only rod I've broken happened doing that.  Ned Roberts made a point of saying not to bounce the rod so I quit it.  I don't see any change in accuracy, but then I'm not steady enough to see the difference anymore. 

~Kees~

Then probably yer rod was not a good one and breaking on bouncing saved the possibility of it breaking off in yer hand.  I only use split pignut hickory rods that i make (LOT of work!) or buy (lazy me ), where the grain runs parallel and full length of the rod, no run offs.

Never broke a rod in, oh, 50 years or so, and "bouncing the rod" insures for me that there is no air space 'tween the powder and patched ball.  This can happen if yer loading without much fouling control, if any, and the BP crud gets hard, which is the secondary reason for "blowing down the barrel" immediately after a shot is taken (keep the BP soft, like blow tubing a BPCR gun 'tween shots).

Now, to be fair, if the rod is marked for the specific charge and patch and ball just loaded, watching that mark meet the muzzle is a fair indicator that the powder is kissing the patched ball.  Just don't change that load.  That's too much thinking for me and it's much faster to see the rod trampoline, knowing that there is no air space inside the tube that can cause a barrel bulge, or worse. 
 

[Ohio Joe]

Kees,

I bounce my ramrod when it stops short of my load mark on it, and that's usually the only time I do.

However, I will admit in certain conditions such as hot weather shooting I find myself bouncing that RR more often then not.

Can't say as I've ever broke one bouncing it. I expect it would be a flaw in the rod itself when it broke on you.

[Ohio Joe]

KDubs,

For as long as I can remember I've been using 1.25" round patches in .45 caliber through .54. an one inch round patches in my .40 caliber rifles. Sometimes I cut at the muzzle... But mostly I load from loading blocks and this has served me well over the years.

Personally, I see no advantage what so ever in the "Flower pedal" patch other then material has been removed to make loading easier / thereby IMHO weakening the patch at the base of those "V" cuts that result in escaping gasses...

Believe it or not, when target shooting - regardless if I'm using a lubed patch or not - that patch is going to get spit, and it's a win win deal when loading a tight patch-n-ball combination... 

[KDubs]

 Now I wanna know how to make split pignut "hickry" ramrods, thanks RobD, thanks a lot 
 I have found when I use a brass range rod with a T handle I feel the ball seat or possibly compress the powder,  sometimes I feel I'm pressing to hard. sorta crunch's
 usually I will use my wood RR to simulate hunting situations,  practice with what I'll use.  I can only push so hard, so I think I'm more consistent.   I'll try bouncing. 

[RobD]

I'll second Joe's post.   

A full well lubed patch, cut at the muzzle or ball board, and a tight load have proven to offer the best consistent accuracy for almost all shooters.

I've seen trad ML target shooters load so tight that they'll use a full and heavy brass rod, and even a mallet to drive the patched ball home.  And dang it, the results are amazingly accurate out to 50 yards and well beyond!

[Bigsmoke]

I am a firm believer in a brass ramrod.  I am not a believer in  bouncing the undergun rod.  It is showey when you bounce the rod out of the barrel, but so what?

RE:  Idaho Lewis, I believe he lives in Sandpoint, pretty close to you, Kevin.  I think he mentioned that he works part time at the gun shop that specializes in BPCR, Sorry I cannot recall the name.

John  (Bigsmoke)

[rollingb]

As a student of history, and one who has a great fondness for all things (clothing, arms, and accoutrements) connected to traditional muzzleloading,.... I try my best to emulate those who used muzzleloaders to feed their families and counted on such arms for their daily survival.
I also count on their descriptions from the past, as being the very best guide as to how to load and shoot these fine arms. 

James Audubon, c1810, describing his host preparing to go raccoon hunting:

"… He blows through his rifle to ascertain that it is clear, examines his flint, and thrusts a feather into the touch-hole. To a leathern bag swung at his side is attached a powder-horn; his sheath-knife is there also; below hangs a narrow strip of homespun linen. He takes from his bag a bullet, pulls with his teeth the wooden stopper from his powder-horn, lays the ball in one hand, and with the other pours the powder upon it until it is just overtopped. Raising the horn to his mouth, he again closes it with the stopper, and restores it to its place. He introduces the powder into the tube; springs the box of his gun, greases the "patch" over with some melted tallow, or damps it; then places it on the honey-combed muzzle of his piece. The bullet is placed on the patch over the bore, and pressed with the handle of the knife, which now trims the edge of the linen. The elastic hickory rod, held with both hands, smoothly pushes the ball to its bed; once, twice, thrice has it rebounded. The rifle leaps as it were into the hunters arms, the feather is drawn from the touch-hole, the powder fills the pan, which is closed. “Now I’m ready,” cries the woodsman….
Journals, Vol. 2, (1972 reprint), page 492.

Notice this particular "hunter" used the palm of his hand to measure his powder charge, and bounced his ramrod on the powder charge 3 times. 

A LOT of valuable information can be garnered from such quotes,.... for anyone interested in researching history.     

[KDubs]

Very interesting

[RobD]

As a student of history, and one who has a great fondness for all things (clothing, arms, and accoutrements) connected to traditional muzzleloading,.... I try my best to emulate those who used muzzleloaders to feed their families and counted on such arms for their daily survival.
I also count on their descriptions from the past, as being the very best guide as to how to load and shoot these fine arms. 

James Audubon, c1810, describing his host preparing to go raccoon hunting:

"… He blows through his rifle to ascertain that it is clear, examines his flint, and thrusts a feather into the touch-hole. To a leathern bag swung at his side is attached a powder-horn; his sheath-knife is there also; below hangs a narrow strip of homespun linen. He takes from his bag a bullet, pulls with his teeth the wooden stopper from his powder-horn, lays the ball in one hand, and with the other pours the powder upon it until it is just overtopped. Raising the horn to his mouth, he again closes it with the stopper, and restores it to its place. He introduces the powder into the tube; springs the box of his gun, greases the "patch" over with some melted tallow, or damps it; then places it on the honey-combed muzzle of his piece. The bullet is placed on the patch over the bore, and pressed with the handle of the knife, which now trims the edge of the linen. The elastic hickory rod, held with both hands, smoothly pushes the ball to its bed; once, twice, thrice has it rebounded. The rifle leaps as it were into the hunters arms, the feather is drawn from the touch-hole, the powder fills the pan, which is closed. “Now I’m ready,” cries the woodsman….
Journals, Vol. 2, (1972 reprint), page 492.

Notice this particular "hunter" used the palm of his hand to measure his powder charge, and bounced his ramrod on the powder charge 3 times. 

A LOT of valuable information can be garnered from such quotes,.... for anyone interested in researching history.     

Aye, sir.  Them old folks knew a thing or three.