Type G English trade gun!?!

[Wilawane]

In this pic the mohawk warrior is holding type g English trade gun.
What stores would you guys recommend to get one. Kit, in white or finished. And I mean other than TOW. thanks in advance any info.

Riku

[Wyoming Mike]

Ywo off the top of my head are Sitting Fox and North Star West.  My druthers would be North Star West because they carry the 24 gauge that I want.

[Captchee]

i think there is also alot of seclusion as to what that gun is or is not . many IMO have some valide points as well . Time fraim the painting was actualy done . Artist that did the painting   if we go just by what we see ,  there are some odd things concerning the  gun itself

 the other question i would have is how accurate are you looking for .?

 the thing about NSW and SF  examples is that they look just like their  de chase or fusil fin . this is IMO because folks look at the distinctive cows foot shape to the but stock  and then go AHHHHHHH . but in fact  there are differences  in both the forstock , wrist shape  and butt stock

[Pichou]

If you want a proper Type G you want Mike Brooks.  Finished, in the white, and I think kits.

That painting is later than the scene depicted, and was done in a studio with props...

[Capt. Jas.]

There was one of Mike's and one of Ben Coogle's on TOTW just the other day but i think they are gone by-by.
Mike Sells a Type G kit in Engilsh or Black Walnut but the stock has just the butt profiled and the ramrod channel and barrel channel inle.t

[tg]

I think Brooks and Coogle are the only ones who make a true type G or Carolina gun

[tg]

This is an example of what is considered to be a G or Carolina gun by most of the serious gun students, they go back to the 17th century likely with little change in appearance

http://www.flintriflesmith.com/Antiques ... de_gun.htm

[James Kelly]

Look over caywoodguns.com   Their Wilson trade gun is an English gun with appropriate serpent sideplate and whatever you call those ribbed-looking thimbles. Couple guys I shoot with have them & are most pleased. I recently got a French type D, fine workmanship. Also available in kits. I like the fact that their barrels are made from the same steel as in modern shotguns. Most other barrels, save Green Mountain, are just screw stock.

[mario]

Look over caywoodguns.com   Their Wilson trade gun is an English gun with appropriate serpent sideplate and whatever you call those ribbed-looking thimbles. Couple guys I shoot with have them & are most pleased. I recently got a French type D, fine workmanship. Also available in kits. I like the fact that their barrels are made from the same steel as in modern shotguns. Most other barrels, save Green Mountain, are just screw stock.

Yes, but the Wilson is not a Type G/Carolina Gun. It is a copy of the O'Connor gun in Hamilton's book.

Wilawane,

Your only options at this point are Mike Brooks (http://www.fowlingguns.com) and Ben Coogle.

Brooks offers a kit as well as a finished gun.

Mario

[Captchee]

yes caywood makes fine  rifles  but mario is right , the wilson is not a Type G .
 the most distinctive thing about the  type G or what  many call the Type G  IMO is the wrist  area .
 its not round  its ovel and its on its side . IE wider on the sides then through its  top and bottom thinkness .

 what steels are best or  used for barrels  is a completely different store  and with out a Proofing , it means little

[tg]

I don't se anything about the guns in the pic that tells me they are Engish G's the side plate looks more like it is from a C French fusil, as does the buttplate with the type of finial, I would cast a vote that these ate French guns. Any one else see this?

[sse]

I can't offer an opinion on the underlying topic, but would ask what species of wood Caywood is using on these...

[Captchee]

there are just to many things out of context  
 the picture wasnt even painted  tell well after the event itself
 
if you look at the  rifle the ranger is holding  its comb is greatly over exaggerated. To the point it appears to be  rather the shape of a cows foot on French designs .
 It also from what we can see of one of the RR thimbles  has octagon shaping .
 But it appears to carry the same plate but plate as the one the American Indian is   holding
 But this  exsample appears to have a plate  type but plate found on  much later trade guns  and no rounded but as with some French guns
 Yet it has different thimbles  which match the one on the ground .But that one had a different buttplate  then either of the other two .

 IMO the lines of all three of these  do look French .  But I would stretch   to lean English for the native rifle based soul in the  flatness of the comb  

However we then have to ask , why  would  these men,  In a depiction of an English event ,  all be carrying French weapons

 IMO the rifles are out of context and was probably one of the props used  for the painting  without reference  to their actual documentation . I also suspect that only 2 rifles
a) a French  fusil  possibly  a C
B a British Bess  which we can hardly see over the shoulder of the  soldier on the right

the artist  appears to have made changes  so as the average person would not immediately  suspect


I really don’t think this painting is a good representation of much of anything concerning rifles

[sse]

Very sensible, Cap.  Its probably a good virtue to critically assess any artistic rendition, for any "license" that may be represented...

[James Kelly]

Caywood appears to stock kits with maple stocks. They will use pretty much whatever you want on a order, walnut, cherry, &c

With respect to proof testing, it is an ancient way of determining if there is a serious flaw in the barrel. Until recent generations it was the only way. I can guarantee you that by itself a proof test is, and has been, inadequate. One needs to magnetic particle inspect the steel bar or finished barrel, possibly eddy current test. I recall about 8 years ago touring Remington arms in NY, watching rifle barrels being mag particle inspected & some guy eddy current testing each shotgun barrel blank that they bought.

If anyone would like actual mechanical property data, and explanation thereof, for the screw stock most people use just email me. No responsible engineer with any integrity would specify this steel for a gun barrel, black powder or not.

I am well aware that no one reading this, unless there is an experienced mechanical engineer or steel metallurgist present, believes it.

The barrel makers & most shooters find my views amusing at best, except for those who are irritated because they wonder if maybe I might be right.

I trust you all notice that Green Mountain barrel company is known to use Gun Barrel Quality 1137Modified steel. Personally I will use either GM or Caywood barrels. I would prefer chrome-moly (4130, 4140) but settle for the GBQ 1137Mod. Just plain 1137 not a good idea.
 
Using 1137Mod GBQ means GM spends more hours to machine a barrel than if they had made it of 12L14.
Machining Time = $$$
Guess GM must do this just out of the goodness of their hearts? Don't you wonder why they ignore the potential cost savings of using screw stock?  
Follow the Money Trail if you want to know why most barrel makers use 12L14.